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  • Stopped being dumb, need advice

    Long typical story of how I got on opiates that I will skip to the need to know. About 16-32mgs of Dilaudid daily used by injection stopped for about a year minus a relapse, maybe two I really don't know. In the past I've used subs to bridge and even injected subs after I know for a fact that precip isn't possible (2 of the absolute worst experiences of my life). Usually I realized that I was addicted to the needle and wouldn't continue IV use of Subutex/Suboxone after the first couple times I'd go on to sublingual live a normal working life on 2-4mgs a day. Welllll the stupidity doesn't start there. Recently it became a habit. I was IV'ing about 8-12mgs Subutex( I would not do this if it wasn't specific Subutex pills) for the past couple months. Everyday I hated myself for doing something so unnecessary for such little euphoria that you can't even pinpoint during it. It was straight habit I would do 1mg and an hour and a half later set up another. Im 125lbs so things speed through my body. Taken normally there's no way for me to take subs less than twice a day without feeling uncomfortable. It's Saturday morning now last Saturday was the day I threw out all of my rigs and "lost" my Subutex contacts. I have never had difficulty switching between IV and sublingual use but man this week has been rough. I did induce on the first day by taking pieces until I was content but after that I've tried to stick to either .5 or 1mg both day and night and I've had two days where I could not help taking an extra 1mg. I would say that it's because of the switch from 12mg to 2mg but I felt fine after "induction"( I say this bc I wasnt switching from a full agonist but then again subs have a huge half life) but I'm trying to plan for the future. I want to taper till a July when I should get money that I can use toward properly getting away and off and continuing with some real help from professionals.( I'm not worried about relapse bc recently I got 10k and I did use some towards Subutex but no real opiates and the money went towards good things). Right now I smoke pot to help manage pain but I also have several hundred gabapentin 800mgs and I haven't tried one. I hear they can help. My sleep is so bad I slept from 7pm- 10-30 and I'm up now since and it's 7:30am. I feel tired but wide awake and sweaty no rls thank God but absolutely no appetite. I don't know where I'm at with the sub and that's scary for me bc in the past I could always take 2mg a day and live a normal life. I'm antsy to get under 2mg a day and I can't even get to it! Any advice pertaining to what my plan should be from here would be appreciated.

  • #2
    Originally posted by rezzen View Post
    Long typical story of how I got on opiates that I will skip to the need to know. About 16-32mgs of Dilaudid daily used by injection stopped for about a year minus a relapse, maybe two I really don't know. In the past I've used subs to bridge and even injected subs after I know for a fact that precip isn't possible (2 of the absolute worst experiences of my life). Usually I realized that I was addicted to the needle and wouldn't continue IV use of Subutex/Suboxone after the first couple times I'd go on to sublingual live a normal working life on 2-4mgs a day. Welllll the stupidity doesn't start there. Recently it became a habit. I was IV'ing about 8-12mgs Subutex( I would not do this if it wasn't specific Subutex pills) for the past couple months. Everyday I hated myself for doing something so unnecessary for such little euphoria that you can't even pinpoint during it. It was straight habit I would do 1mg and an hour and a half later set up another. Im 125lbs so things speed through my body. Taken normally there's no way for me to take subs less than twice a day without feeling uncomfortable. It's Saturday morning now last Saturday was the day I threw out all of my rigs and "lost" my Subutex contacts. I have never had difficulty switching between IV and sublingual use but man this week has been rough. I did induce on the first day by taking pieces until I was content but after that I've tried to stick to either .5 or 1mg both day and night and I've had two days where I could not help taking an extra 1mg. I would say that it's because of the switch from 12mg to 2mg but I felt fine after "induction"( I say this bc I wasnt switching from a full agonist but then again subs have a huge half life) but I'm trying to plan for the future. I want to taper till a July when I should get money that I can use toward properly getting away and off and continuing with some real help from professionals.( I'm not worried about relapse bc recently I got 10k and I did use some towards Subutex but no real opiates and the money went towards good things). Right now I smoke pot to help manage pain but I also have several hundred gabapentin 800mgs and I haven't tried one. I hear they can help. My sleep is so bad I slept from 7pm- 10-30 and I'm up now since and it's 7:30am. I feel tired but wide awake and sweaty no rls thank God but absolutely no appetite. I don't know where I'm at with the sub and that's scary for me bc in the past I could always take 2mg a day and live a normal life. I'm antsy to get under 2mg a day and I can't even get to it! Any advice pertaining to what my plan should be from here would be appreciated.

    rezzen, welcome back to the forum! You started a thread last September, I reached out to offer help, advice and support but you only ended up posting twice over the course of two days then you disappeared? Here's a link to the thread that you started back in September of 2019 - https://forum.drugs.com/prescription...doc-75420.html

    If you are going to be sticking around this time then I'd be more than happy to help you in any way I can? I certainly can give you some pointers on the subs so that you are getting the best outcome from them! I'll be on the lookout for an update from you? Take care... God bless us all!

    PS
    The forums have been really slow for months now and are even more slow on the weekends! Hopefully other's will chime in as well?
    Last edited by Anonymous; 05-09-2020, 04:12 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Ricky71 thank you so much for your replies both now and last September. I did mess up couldn't push away the thoughts ended up doing doc on day 6 and not wanting to start over again I just went back to subs and found employment. You were right that 2mg was too high to jump from. I think now that I have a plan and I'm serious about never touching a rig again that this is doable but I'm not gunna be naive this time. When the time comes for me to jump off I'm gunna take a vacation about 100 or so miles from where I'm at now. I'm around Daytona Beach and thinking of going to Tampa maybe the keys. I'm going to hire a local that has been through addiction to help me clean get groceries and just generally be supportive. How long will this vacation need to be? The main point being I won't be able to get stuff even if I wanted and to have support to talk through urges. But this will be in July. Last night I made a chart. I have 4 day increments the first being 1mg 3 times a day then dropping to .75mg 3 times a day and so on going down to .125 twice daily several weeks from now. That's as far as the chart goes but after I plan on following Roberts taper with the skipping days and such. Does anyone know anything about gabapentin and if it could/should be used? And as far as switching from the IV sub to sublingual everyday has been better and today feels kinda normal. My sleep is messed up but hopefully that will fall in line soon. Quarantine doesnt help.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by rezzen View Post
        Ricky71 thank you so much for your replies both now and last September. I did mess up couldn't push away the thoughts ended up doing doc on day 6 and not wanting to start over again I just went back to subs and found employment. You were right that 2mg was too high to jump from. I think now that I have a plan and I'm serious about never touching a rig again that this is doable but I'm not gunna be naive this time. When the time comes for me to jump off I'm gunna take a vacation about 100 or so miles from where I'm at now. I'm around Daytona Beach and thinking of going to Tampa maybe the keys. I'm going to hire a local that has been through addiction to help me clean get groceries and just generally be supportive. How long will this vacation need to be? The main point being I won't be able to get stuff even if I wanted and to have support to talk through urges. But this will be in July. Last night I made a chart. I have 4 day increments the first being 1mg 3 times a day then dropping to .75mg 3 times a day and so on going down to .125 twice daily several weeks from now. That's as far as the chart goes but after I plan on following Roberts taper with the skipping days and such. Does anyone know anything about gabapentin and if it could/should be used? And as far as switching from the IV sub to sublingual everyday has been better and today feels kinda normal. My sleep is messed up but hopefully that will fall in line soon. Quarantine doesnt help.

        I'll be back later when I have more time to give you a proper reply. I wanted to make sure that you came back to your thread with a response to my post first? By the way, I live a couple of hours south of you in Melbourne! I'll try to get back to you later tonight or early tomorrow morning? Take care... God bless us all!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by rezzen View Post
          Ricky71 thank you so much for your replies both now and last September. I did mess up couldn't push away the thoughts ended up doing doc on day 6 and not wanting to start over again I just went back to subs and found employment. You were right that 2mg was too high to jump from. I think now that I have a plan and I'm serious about never touching a rig again that this is doable but I'm not gunna be naive this time. When the time comes for me to jump off I'm gunna take a vacation about 100 or so miles from where I'm at now. I'm around Daytona Beach and thinking of going to Tampa maybe the keys. I'm going to hire a local that has been through addiction to help me clean get groceries and just generally be supportive. How long will this vacation need to be? The main point being I won't be able to get stuff even if I wanted and to have support to talk through urges. But this will be in July. Last night I made a chart. I have 4 day increments the first being 1mg 3 times a day then dropping to .75mg 3 times a day and so on going down to .125 twice daily several weeks from now. That's as far as the chart goes but after I plan on following Roberts taper with the skipping days and such. Does anyone know anything about gabapentin and if it could/should be used? And as far as switching from the IV sub to sublingual everyday has been better and today feels kinda normal. My sleep is messed up but hopefully that will fall in line soon. Quarantine doesnt help.

          Do you have the sub films or tabs? How accurate are your doses? Subs have a very long half-life, there is no need to dose 3X/day. We have found that dosing 2X/day (split into even doses) 8-10 hours apart works best and once you get down to 1mg/day switching to dosing just 1X/day prepares you for the final jump! For example: if you are at 3mg/day then you would take 1.5mg at 10am and then 1.5mg at 7:00pm? Of course you can pick your own times to dose as long as it is at the same times everyday 8-10 hours apart? I cannot stress to you enough on how IMPORTANT it is to make sure that your doses are accurate and taken at the SAME EXACT times everyday! This will help keep a consistent amount of sub in your system which in return will have you feeling the very best you can while on sub therapy? You should be following Robert's sub therapy/taper plan right now, not down the road! Once you are completely stable on your current dose you then can make your first 25% reduction? You can make 25% reductions every 4-7 days (minimum of four days) as long as you are stable on your current dose? NEVER make a reduction unless you are completely stable on your current dose!

          You'll want to taper the subs all the way down to .25mg or less before either making the final jump and/or doing the skip day process?

          The gabapentin will help you when you make your final jump! I'll provide you with a dosing schedule for the gabapentin when you actually make your final jump. You won't be taking the gabapentin for too long then you'll have to taper that as well. That's a ways off so don't worry about the gabapentin for now. Get your dosing under control and on an exact 2X/day schedule and then follow Robert's sub taper plan! Answer the questions I asked above and we'll go from there. I'm here to help if you need it? Best of luck to you... God bless us all!

          PS
          I can promise you that if you follow my advice and get yourself to taking accurate sub doses at the same exact times everyday that within a few days to maybe a week you will feel pretty good mentally and physically! You will actually feel quite well when you are taking subs correctly!
          Last edited by Anonymous; 05-10-2020, 03:00 PM.

          Comment


          • #6
            So I feel that I didn't properly explain but I'll start by answering your questions. I have 8mg strips that I procure half from a family member and the other part comes from people I know that I have to pay for so every now and then I would get sub pills but for this I'm going out of my way to procure only strips for accuracy so I'd say pretty accurate but I use regular scissors not manicuring so there may be very slight mistakes. So I am following a very strict schedule though I felt I needed the slight change bc of my history with subs. Even when I would try to take 2mg twice a day I need a sub every 10 hours or so. I can't make that period between night and morning. I need 3 pieces over 30 hours. I just see myself really screwing up because of the inability to sleep. So I revised a version that intersects with Roberts taper at the .25mg point. I've made a chart that I just finished the first part on where I take 1mg(8am) 1mg(4pm) 1mg (10pm). The times of day will remain the same until the point where I do take twice a day. Here are my reductions spaced out in 4 day intervals. They will be in this format (8am dose)(4pm dose)(10pm dose). I am currently at (.75mg)(.75mg)(.75mg). After that (.75)(.5)(.5)******(.5)(.5)(.25)******(.5)(.25)(.2 5)******(.25)(.25)(.25)*****(.25)(.25)(.125)****** (.25)(.125)(.125)*****(.125)(.125)(.125)****** then finally .125mg 10am and .125 8pm and closing out .125 in the morning no evening dose make sure I stabilize there and then I can start the skipping days part. I know this is out of the ordinary but as I stated before with my metabolism being the way it is I really believe this is going to be best for me. It is more work and the only part I worry about is dealing with the .125's. They're so small!!!! Btw today was my first day on the reduction to a total dose of 2.25. It's 5am and the insomnia from the first week has screwed my schedule but I'm feeling pretty alright. I'm glad you've suggested the gabapentin for the late stage because that's the scary part and I feel like I'll be going in with a slight advantage if you know what I mean and just the fact that I feel mentally prepared for that part now is worth it much less any relief the gabapentin will provide. Thanks again for your help, I look forward to your reply.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by rezzen View Post
              So I feel that I didn't properly explain but I'll start by answering your questions. I have 8mg strips that I procure half from a family member and the other part comes from people I know that I have to pay for so every now and then I would get sub pills but for this I'm going out of my way to procure only strips for accuracy so I'd say pretty accurate but I use regular scissors not manicuring so there may be very slight mistakes. So I am following a very strict schedule though I felt I needed the slight change bc of my history with subs. Even when I would try to take 2mg twice a day I need a sub every 10 hours or so. I can't make that period between night and morning. I need 3 pieces over 30 hours. I just see myself really screwing up because of the inability to sleep. So I revised a version that intersects with Roberts taper at the .25mg point. I've made a chart that I just finished the first part on where I take 1mg(8am) 1mg(4pm) 1mg (10pm). The times of day will remain the same until the point where I do take twice a day. Here are my reductions spaced out in 4 day intervals. They will be in this format (8am dose)(4pm dose)(10pm dose). I am currently at (.75mg)(.75mg)(.75mg). After that (.75)(.5)(.5)******(.5)(.5)(.25)******(.5)(.25)(.2 5)******(.25)(.25)(.25)*****(.25)(.25)(.125)****** (.25)(.125)(.125)*****(.125)(.125)(.125)****** then finally .125mg 10am and .125 8pm and closing out .125 in the morning no evening dose make sure I stabilize there and then I can start the skipping days part. I know this is out of the ordinary but as I stated before with my metabolism being the way it is I really believe this is going to be best for me. It is more work and the only part I worry about is dealing with the .125's. They're so small!!!! Btw today was my first day on the reduction to a total dose of 2.25. It's 5am and the insomnia from the first week has screwed my schedule but I'm feeling pretty alright. I'm glad you've suggested the gabapentin for the late stage because that's the scary part and I feel like I'll be going in with a slight advantage if you know what I mean and just the fact that I feel mentally prepared for that part now is worth it much less any relief the gabapentin will provide. Thanks again for your help, I look forward to your reply.
              Hi rezzen,

              I just wanted to check in and see how you're doing? I am also tapering right now with Ricky's help. I've read many threads with him helping others and he really knows what he's talking about! Tapering works and we can totally do this! I have been on subs for a long time but fairly new to tapering. I hope all is going well for you. Update when you can.

              -Jojo

              Comment


              • #8
                Hey JoJo thanks for your response, things are going pretty well I'm currently on day 2 of 1.75mg daily. I've felt great 98% of the time though I have moments where I get the yawns and don't feel amazing, usually late at night. My sleep is the hardest part. I slept from 330am to 6am and woke up wide awake. The night before I had 2 episodes of sleep paralysis and a nightmare. I also took a nap today from 1pm to 4 pm and had 2 more episodes of sleep paralysis(look it up if you're unfamiliar). I had someone text me today and offer me Subutex and they're the little white ones with an arrow that I always loved to bang bc I felt I actually caught a buzz from them, I didn't even think twice about turning them down and asking them not to tell me anymore. I'm excited to be looking forward to being clean after 8 years of drug abuse. I also have a buddy that is gunna help me procure some LSD that I plan to use some time after all is said and done with the goal of staying clean. Lots of good things have been said about the effects of psychedelics with treating addiction but a topic for another time and another thread. Trust me when I say it's something I take very seriously. Anyways jojo how are you coming along? I tried to post on your original thread but it either didn't stick or was removed, it was about my experience with my gf having our son while still on Subutex and the doctors telling her not to quit subs. She also ended up having to do an emergency c section. If you're interested I can let you know more. Best of luck to you!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rezzen View Post
                  Hey JoJo thanks for your response, things are going pretty well I'm currently on day 2 of 1.75mg daily. I've felt great 98% of the time though I have moments where I get the yawns and don't feel amazing, usually late at night. My sleep is the hardest part. I slept from 330am to 6am and woke up wide awake. The night before I had 2 episodes of sleep paralysis and a nightmare. I also took a nap today from 1pm to 4 pm and had 2 more episodes of sleep paralysis(look it up if you're unfamiliar). I had someone text me today and offer me Subutex and they're the little white ones with an arrow that I always loved to bang bc I felt I actually caught a buzz from them, I didn't even think twice about turning them down and asking them not to tell me anymore. I'm excited to be looking forward to being clean after 8 years of drug abuse. I also have a buddy that is gunna help me procure some LSD that I plan to use some time after all is said and done with the goal of staying clean. Lots of good things have been said about the effects of psychedelics with treating addiction but a topic for another time and another thread. Trust me when I say it's something I take very seriously. Anyways jojo how are you coming along? I tried to post on your original thread but it either didn't stick or was removed, it was about my experience with my gf having our son while still on Subutex and the doctors telling her not to quit subs. She also ended up having to do an emergency c section. If you're interested I can let you know more. Best of luck to you!
                  Glad to hear you are doing well and sticking with it! Nighttime and sleeping has always been the hardest part for me too. I can't imagine dealing with sleep paralysis on top of that. Have you looked into any natural supplements you can take to help during this taper? I know there's the "Thomas Recipe" somewhere on here that gives a list of supplements and vitamins you can use. As far as the psychedelics you mention, I have a friend who was a serious opioid addict for some time and he went to Mexico and did a 7-day detox program there using something along those lines (not LSD but another psychedelic) and he has been clean ever since. Its been at least two years I believe, so there is definitely something to it! He also goes to meetings which helps him a lot.

                  I would definitely love to hear more about your girlfriend's experience with subs and delivery if you don't mind sharing. I am also having a son and I'm so excited but this whole situation has definitely put a damper on things and is giving me lots of anxiety. I'm doing well with my taper otherwise and still hopeful I can make it all the way off. I made my first real reduction today, down to .625mg. Only about 15% less than where I was but I figured it will be easier for cutting up the strips. So far so good! Just hoping I sleep tonight.

                  Good luck to you as well! Keep us updated!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Just updating real quick I'm doing well. Currently at 1.25mg daily though I'm goin on day 6 of that amount. If I make it to 8am with no w/d symptoms I'm going to decrease to 1mg. I haven't found the time to really post lately but I will do my best to tomorrow.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I think the first post won't stick bc it mentions another drug I B O G A I N E. Here's the rest of it though.
                      So my gf was told by the doctors that it wasnt worth putting the baby at risk so they told her to keep doin what she was doing which was getting subs off the street. Anyways on her due date I actually told her to go to the hospital bc her insurance had lapsed and she had missed the last obgyn appointment (they signed her up for Medicaid after delivery and it was retroactive towards the medical bills thank God.) But after getting to the hospital they said the baby was stressed enough that they wanted to induce labor. They gave her oxytocin I believe and she started going through an absolute ton of pain. So much so that they decided to give the epidural early. Then bc of the oxytocin the baby stressed even harder and an emergency C-section was needed. Let me tell you as a guy look at your girl the whole time. There's like a blanket/ curtain kind of thing so she can't see whats goin on but I had a view at this mirror so I could see where they had cut and were literally pulling her apart to get the baby. With the blood and all that I was literally going into shock and my gf( the one with a big hole in her) had to grab my hand and tell me to pay attention to her. I must've been white as you could be. Crazy stuff. Afterwards our son did come out with a dependence unfortunately though I understand that's not always the case with subs. He was in the NICU for about a week and in our room for another week weening off with morphine. DCF did investigate but after seeing our house and that we weren't living like junkies they quickly moved on.. so yea that's our story with our son and he is such a healthy wayyyyyy too energetic awesome little boy. I'm excited to be able to put the money that used to go into subs into making our life better.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Yep looks like that was the issue. Here's the first part of the post without typing the word outright.

                        JoJo it sounds like your friend found an I B O G A I N E clinic. Very interesting drug right there. I believe you have to be off drugs for some period of time but it basically stops the addiction to opiates and any cravings for a good time after and not sure but I don't think anyone really knows why. It's been a while since I've looked into it but worth the read.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hey rezz! Sounds like you’re moving right along! That’s great. Something weird happened with my thread too. Suddenly it’s saying it’s unapproved. Not sure what I could’ve said to cause that. And it was up for days before that? Really strange.

                          Thanks for sharing the birth story, it’s always nice to hear other people’s experience. Its a relief to hear that DCF didn’t Give you guys too much trouble. It seems like it’s a 50/50 shot of whether babies will experience NAS. I’m down to .25 and feeling good so I’m still pretty hopeful I’ll be off completely. And yes, the “I” word was it. My friend has been doing great since, along with making a lot of life changes.

                          anyway keep up the great work! I’ll check back for updates! Hoping I can get my thread back as well.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by JojoBas View Post
                            Hey rezz! Sounds like you’re moving right along! That’s great. Something weird happened with my thread too. Suddenly it’s saying it’s unapproved. Not sure what I could’ve said to cause that. And it was up for days before that? Really strange.

                            Thanks for sharing the birth story, it’s always nice to hear other people’s experience. Its a relief to hear that DCF didn’t Give you guys too much trouble. It seems like it’s a 50/50 shot of whether babies will experience NAS. I’m down to .25 and feeling good so I’m still pretty hopeful I’ll be off completely. And yes, the “I” word was it. My friend has been doing great since, along with making a lot of life changes.

                            anyway keep up the great work! I’ll check back for updates! Hoping I can get my thread back as well.

                            Jojo, I noticed that your thread is missing as well? I've been on the forums here for a few years and every time that I've seen a post that said that it needed approval before it will post actually will never post for some reason? But in your case it is completely different, your entire thread was there and has been there but now it's gone? I think there's a glitch/problem when they updated and overhauled the site last weekend? You can send a message to the site administrator and let them know what happened? Hopefully they can restore your thread? If not then unfortunately you'll need to start a new thread? I always keep copies of my posts just in case, once I know that my post is good I'll delete my copies.

                            I don't know if you were able to see my last post that I left for you on your thread but if not, here it is again?
                            "Jojo, you are doing great but don't get too far ahead of yourself! This is not a race, keep it slow and steady! Reminders, keep your doses accurate and take your sub at the same EXACT time everyday! Spend at least four days on each dose and DO NOT make a reduction unless you are completely stable!

                            Not sure what drug test you used but I'm assuming it was just a simple multi-panel at home urine test? Short half-life opiates like oxycodone, hydrocodone, etc. only stay in your system for 2-3 days, after that you wouldn't show a positive result on a urine test! Buprenorphine will not show up as an opiate, you would have to test specifically for buprenorphine to get a positive/negative result? What was the actual test that you took? How many panels, what exact drugs did it test for? Update when you can?"

                            Once again, send a message to the site admin about your thread? Lastly Jojo, slow down on your taper! You have to be extra careful because of your situation! You and your baby are going to be just fine!

                            rezzen, sorry to high jack your thread! Take care everyone... God bless us all!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I'm in a bit of a conundrum and I could use advice. I was taking 1mg daily with .5mg at 8am .25mg at 4pm and .25mg at 10pm for the last 5 days. Early yesterday going into the 5th day I felt some w/D's but was able to go to sleep and unfortunately missed my alarm and woke up an hour late at 9am in pretty decent w/D's before I took the sub and finally felt better at 10am. I continued with my doses and was hoping that I could continue with my reductions in at least day 6 of 1mg but I see now at 6am that I am not stable. I have cold sweats and RLS and hella lot of yawning. Do I have to go back up a dose to 1.25mg? Should I just continue and see if it gets better? I will try but it is definitely worse than yesterday and I'm worried that it will keep getting worse because aren't the worst days day one and two after reduction? This is difficult, I look forward to some guidance.
                              Last edited by rezzen; 05-26-2020, 02:13 PM. Reason: Typo

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