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  • #46
    Originally posted by ukelove View Post
    I have just found this thread and am very grateful for the info and that it is current. As far as I know, suboxone is a "newer" form of opiate detox and more is being learned about it.
    I agree that it is a miracle as I have been able to leave my oxy addiction of 1 year with suboxone help. It has been a year and 2 months since I first took suboxone; I take about 1 to 2mg a day, and like many here, are concerned about getting free from symptoms and side-effects.
    I totally agree with the helpers here like Robt325 who encourage positive outlook, with reasonable perspective. I feel totally grateful for what suboxone has done for me so far.

    My doctor is a Psychiatrist/MD who only deals with pharmaceutical therapy and says that addicts have a chemical imbalance which causes us to look for relief in substances. He says that suboxone, while not perfect, is a tool to help get addicts to a more functional level and for some, it may be a life long medication.
    That would be fine with me, but unfortunately, I have either side-effects or something else wrong with me.
    In middle age, with lots of obligations, I find myself in a funk; physically and mentally and emotionally.
    Being on oxy was terrible; the worst, but I still, after a yr on sub oxone, have very very low energy about 75% of my day. I also have some depression; like I don't look forward to anything anymore.
    As I said, I only take about 1 mg per day, but yes if I go more than a day without it, I feel like I can't sit still; I'm tired, but cant rest; anxious and nervous, but tired. Seems like typical withdrawal symptoms.
    I have had to reduce my output (work load) way down about 50%, and am anxious about that too.
    I try to have a very healthy diet, and it is hard for me to get excited about excercise but I know it should help with energy and the depression.

    Thank you for any suggestions, comments, and your help in "being there".


    It's definitely time for you to get off the suboxone in my opinion. I suppose it's okay for some if they feel and the dr supports them that they need to take it for a lifetime as a maintenance drug. But I wouldn't do it if I was having side effects. I probably wouldn't do it this way at all but that is just me.

    There are two options. I only mention doing this because you are on a really low dose and not abusing it. Some people react to the naloxone in the suboxone and do better with subutex. It is pure buprenorphine and has no naloxone as does suboxone. That is one option. The other choice is to titrate down properly and eventually get off the suboxone entirely. That would be my recommendation. I assure you that you can get off the suboxone if you do this correctly. I can help you with a taper if you really want to do it. Let me know. God bless.

    Comment


    • #47
      yes please tell me how to titrate down from 1 to 2mg per day.
      I do see a Dr for my general health and he "guesses" my symptoms of fatigue and depression are from the suboxone and he tells me to mathematically reduce. He says do 1 mg every [I]other[I] day for a while, then 1/2 mg every other day, and so on.
      I just nodded ok, but I didn't really write down a procedure plan.
      thank you.

      Comment


      • #48
        Suboxone and Long term.

        Summermaru: There has been no reseach on suboxone long term. It was meant to be short term. I would suggest everyone on the medication to read what the company who puts it out to the public states what research has been done...

        Now ... Do not get me wrong. I used sub to get me thru detox and if it wasnt for the medication I am sure I would still be using. For me.... it was a miracle drug. It did what it suppose to do. I was on it for nearly 8 weeks.

        There are many doc;s out there that know nothing about the drug or just do not care how they dispense the medication...as long as they get paid.. they are happy. I am NOT saying this is all MD's but there are many. This will change due to folks like you abuseing the medication and I hope soon.. but prob not till many die or end up with side effects that are so negative that its pulled from the market untill more research is done.

        If it was my choice to be on it or off of it.??........ I dont want to depend on a medication for the rest of my life to feel normal. I take insulin or I die, I take avonex or I will end up dead or worse, alive alert and cant take care of myself. I took opiates to get high at first then to feel normal........... this was costly and I would do just about anything to keep from wd.

        Yes Suboxone is addictive... its an opiate. If its your choice to stay on the drug then ok... especially if it keeps you from abusing narc's.... but to abuse the drug to keep you from abuseing opiates just does not make sense. I was burned on my hand and had to go thru a debridement without any pain meds due to the suboxone... no time to let it wear off.... glad, but after that it woke me up on not staying on it for ever. I wish you luck and hope you come clean with your md.

        To me suboxone is the "last stop for gas" if you get my drift.

        Sister

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        • #49
          again to be more specific Robert, I would say it is more like 1 mg per day. simply eyeballing the chip I make from the 8 mg tabs I have.
          So if we are going to measure any, it would be good to say I am at 1mg /day.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by ukelove View Post
            again to be more specific Robert, I would say it is more like 1 mg per day. simply eyeballing the chip I make from the 8 mg tabs I have.
            So if we are going to measure any, it would be good to say I am at 1mg /day.



            It's the time rather than the dose in your case that is causing you some problems. This is going to take some patience on your part. The dose you are at is so small that this is going to depend on how small of a piece you can slice off with a razor.

            Usually at 1mg taken for a short time I would simply suggest to begin skipping doses and then days. But if you have maintained this small dose for some time then we need to get the dose down a little smaller before beginning to skip doses and days.

            I would immediately cut the dose by the smallest amount you can keep up with. Can you reduce by .25mg? Can you cut off that amount and be pretty accurate? It would be best to use a single-edged razor rather than a pill cutter. Don't know how you have been doing it as the smallest dose pill is 2mg and you are using 8mg pills now. This is going to be LOTS easier to do with a 2mg pill rather than the 8mg. That is a big pill to cut into such small pieces. I hate telling you to get more pills if you have a full supply. Not saying you can't do it with 8mg pills. Common sense just says that such a small reduction is going to be very hard to monitor with an 8mg pill. With a 2mg pill it's 1/8 of a pill reduction. I know this is a ridiculously small change but to do this with NO symptoms that is what it is going to take. You won't need a lot of pills to do this. Believe it or not there are actually people on this forum who have been taking a total dose of .25mg in the process of totally weaning off.

            Drop the dose as suggested. Realize that suboxone has an extremely long half life. This means that if you have w/d symptoms the first day then it is a mental thing. You shouldn't feel an actual w/d symptom if any for three days. So reduce to .25mg for one week. This will give the half life time to catch up with itself. At the end of one week let's see how you are doing and we can make adjustments as needed at that time.

            Try and post each day how you are doing. I will stay in touch. This will be a slow process for you. It will almost seem like you are making no progress. But that is how it needs to be done to keep you out of w/d. I wish I would have been able to speak with you about six months ago. But we are where we are. You can do this. Just stay focused and don't get discouraged. You are on your way to being completely free of everything. Good luck and God bless.
            Last edited by Anonymous; 09-08-2008, 09:00 PM.

            Comment


            • #51
              ok Robert, sounds good!
              I'll give it a try tuesday cutting it at .25mg. I asked the Dr for 2mg, and got the big ones; much more than I need, I dont think it was intentional, a mistake, but he sees me on it indefinitely, or at least until I discontinue on my own.
              Actually he has a good program that requires attendance at meetings the first few months of treatment. Then he just prescribes as the patient feels is needed.
              thanks, i feel hopeful. will keep posting as we go.

              Comment


              • #52
                Tapering

                Originally posted by walck View Post
                I have been on 2mg once a day for about 3-4 days. Seem ok. Will the side effects be the the same as the oxy sid effects. don't know what I am looking for exactly.
                ok so now I have been on 2 mg once a day and so scared to drop to 1 mg once a day. Can I do 1 mg. 2x a day for a few days and then drop to 1 mg a day and then off?

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by walck View Post
                  ok so now I have been on 2 mg once a day and so scared to drop to 1 mg once a day. Can I do 1 mg. 2x a day for a few days and then drop to 1 mg a day and then off?


                  I actually suggested a couple days ago that you go ahead and drop to 1mg. But you can surely take this the way you have suggested if you are more comfortable doing that. Take the 1mg twice daily for two days, then skip the evening dose entirely and drop to 1mg. 1mg is still a little high to stop at.

                  I will suggest staying at 1mg for four days. Have to give the half life time to catch up with itself. After four days you will take .5mg for four days. Then you will skip one day and then take .5mg. Then you will skip two days and then take .5mg. Then you will skip three days and then take .5mg. Now you are ready to stop. Hopefully you will feel nothing at this point. If you do you take a little sliver and begin the stopping process again. You always take a sliver if you feel badly and then stop the next day again. Usually this works the first time you stop but if you have to take an extra sliver once or even twice it's okay. Better to do that than to have w/d symptoms.

                  You are almost done. You will really feel great about this in a couple weeks. God bless.

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    OK I got it now. i will print this and follow it. Thanks

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by walck View Post
                      OK I got it now. i will print this and follow it. Thanks


                      That plan should work fine for you. Just let me know how you are doing please. I like to see that people are doing ok. God bless.

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Robert_325 View Post
                        It's the time rather than the dose in your case that is causing you some problems. This is going to take some patience on your part. The dose you are at is so small that this is going to depend on how small of a piece you can slice off with a razor.

                        Usually at 1mg taken for a short time I would simply suggest to begin skipping doses and then days. But if you have maintained this small dose for some time then we need to get the dose down a little smaller before beginning to skip doses and days.

                        I would immediately cut the dose by the smallest amount you can keep up with. Can you reduce by .25mg? Can you cut off that amount and be pretty accurate? It would be best to use a single-edged razor rather than a pill cutter. Don't know how you have been doing it as the smallest dose pill is 2mg and you are using 8mg pills now. This is going to be LOTS easier to do with a 2mg pill rather than the 8mg. That is a big pill to cut into such small pieces. I hate telling you to get more pills if you have a full supply. Not saying you can't do it with 8mg pills. Common sense just says that such a small reduction is going to be very hard to monitor with an 8mg pill. With a 2mg pill it's 1/8 of a pill reduction. I know this is a ridiculously small change but to do this with NO symptoms that is what it is going to take. You won't need a lot of pills to do this. Believe it or not there are actually people on this forum who have been taking a total dose of .25mg in the process of totally weaning off.

                        Drop the dose as suggested. Realize that suboxone has an extremely long half life. This means that if you have w/d symptoms the first day then it is a mental thing. You shouldn't feel an actual w/d symptom if any for three days. So reduce to .25mg for one week. This will give the half life time to catch up with itself. At the end of one week let's see how you are doing and we can make adjustments as needed at that time.

                        Try and post each day how you are doing. I will stay in touch. This will be a slow process for you. It will almost seem like you are making no progress. But that is how it needs to be done to keep you out of w/d. I wish I would have been able to speak with you about six months ago. But we are where we are. You can do this. Just stay focused and don't get discouraged. You are on your way to being completely free of everything. Good luck and God bless.
                        I just went at an 8mg tab with a razor, and man, it is unlikely.
                        Once I get it to approx. 1mg, which is the size I have been doing, but with my fingernails up til now, it looks like I will be doing some serious "eyeballing" little mounds of pill and as you all know, they can turn to powder pretty easily.
                        I know that is why you recomend a smaller 2 mg. pill. Perhaps even that would be hard too, considering the consistency of the sub itself.

                        At this point I think i will break a few tabs up with the razor and try to get estimated .25 chunks.

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          ukelove

                          I know when you get down to that small it's really hard to do on an 8mg pill. It is actually easier with a 2mg pill. The .25mg piece is still as small on that pill as the 8mg pill but the 2mg is much more intact at that size than when starting with the 8mg. You can do it the way you said and guess on it. You just won't be entirely accurate. Only reason it makes such a difference is the small dose you have been on for an extended period of time. You have to taper down further from that dose. If you can do it with the 8mg pill that is certainly okay.

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                          • #58
                            got it ; thanks; I took a tiny chip today, and so far so good.

                            thanks again.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by ukelove View Post
                              got it ; thanks; I took a tiny chip today, and so far so good.

                              thanks again.


                              Just making sure that you understood me to just reduce your dose by .25mg down to .75mg. Not take just .25mg. I am probably reading more into your post than I should. But want to make sure you got it right.

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by Robert_325 View Post
                                Just making sure that you understood me to just reduce your dose by .25mg down to .75mg. Not take just .25mg. I am probably reading more into your post than I should. But want to make sure you got it right.
                                oh wow; thanks for that, I got a bit worried as I had some little difficulty last nite... feeling squirrelly.
                                ok... thats a little easier to cut and to deal with physically.
                                -uke

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