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  • #76
    I read it twice and now I am scared to death. Any way to go back on the oxy 20/20 I was on and try again to taper off or is it too late. This is freaking me out. When I read that post I printed it to give to my husband. So for someone who has NEVER used drugs I may end up being a drug addict through no fault of mine? Carol

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    • #77
      Suboxone

      My husband just began using Suboxone Wednesday the 17th. His dose is 8mg once daily. He took his first dose at 4pm. Bad idea. He looked so high, I couldn't even bear to look at him. He was sweating profusely, running around the house like the energizer bunny and cleaning up everything. He couldn't sleep hardly at all that night and ended up leaving at 330am to go work out at the gym.

      His history: according to what he tells me, he was taking up to 7 Lortab's a day. He'd start with two early in the am, then two more a couple of hours later. If he felt he was too high, he'd take Xanax to come down. He'd do this all day long...opiates, benzos, opiates, benzos...russian roullette if you will. When he finally came clean about his problem, he first said it was alcohol. (But it was really the EFFECTS of the alcohol while on the Lortabs and Xanax). Then he said it was purely a Xanax problem with SOME Lortab use. Then he finally admitted it was pretty much equal amounts of Lortab and Benzos.

      He admitted the Xanax on April 11th. Said he could kick it on his own. We all believed him of course. That weekend I went into pre-term labor with our twins and had to be admitted to stop the labor. The stress of his problem put me into labor. One week later we went to a therapist. She refused to see him until he got professional medical help, specifically inpatient rehab. He said it wasn't that bad. We went to Bradford that same day to just check out there outpatient program. He said he hadn't used since April 11th. He panicked when they asked him to take a drug test. Turns out it was positive for Opiates, Benzos and cocaine. Big shocker to me b/c at this point, he was supposed to be clean for about a week and I knew nothing about the Lortab or Cocaine. He refused rehab and we went home. I went into labor again that night, one week after the first time. Again, I had to stay overnight in the hospital to stop labor.

      I caught him using many more times. But apparently I would only catch him if he had obviously taken too many Xanax. If he did a good job of controlling the Lortab/Xanax dosing, I didn't notice. I went into TRUE real labor June 2 when my water broke 6 weeks early. Our girl twin was born 3lbs, 13oz, and our boy twin was born 5lbs, 11 oz. He had to go to the NICU at a totally different hospital within hours of birth; she was able to stay at my hospital, but wasn't allowed to even come out of the nursery. He used while I was in the hospital recovering and I had to completely take care of myself after having a c-section and not having either one of my babies with me.

      He used again while our little girl was at home, but we were visiting our little boy multiple times a day in the NICU. She came home at 10 days, and he came home at 24 days. He used again throughout July 4th. I told him he had two choices, go to inpatient rehab or lose his family. I couldn't take it anymore. I had given him one million chances and now I had to be concerned for my children's safety. He risked losing our house, our business, HIS KIDS, ME, everything! He agreed to go, then backed out one day before his plane would leave for Florida. Said he could kick it on his own.

      He was straight for over 2 months, then went out of town and i noticed his voice was weird on the phone. I accused him of using again, he said I was crazy, he was just tired. He came home a couple of days later and was messed up out of his mind. At the end of my rope, i told him he was going to have to get help and I couldn't take care of everything for him anymore like I have been (yes, codependant). He went Monday Sept 15th to outpatient rehab and signed up for treatment from them.

      He's been on the Suboxone now for 5 days. Definately only takes it in the morning. He can't sleep for longer than 2 hours at night. Last night he sweated so profusely all over his body he thought he had wet the bed! He takes baths in the middle of the night to try to relax. He says he feels better each day that goes buy.

      I hate the way he looks. I can't stand to look at him with that look on his face, like he's high. I worry that he thinks he's got a free ticket to get high on opiates now. All the literature and MD's say suboxone doesn't get you high, but, i'm telling you, he feels something. He even says it's not the same feeling as Lortab and he doesn't have the desire to abuse any drugs though. He looks strange and I"m embarassed for people to see him like this. Our 6 year old is noticing that he is looking and acting weird. He's just not himself. Last night, as I watched him put pj's on the twins, he looked as if he was falling asleep as he was doing it. Whenever I look over at him driving, he looks as if he'll fall asleep at the wheel any minute. He reminds me of the way he looked when he used take "scoop", or GHB.

      WILL THIS GET BETTER? IS HIS 8MG DOSE TOO HIGH? HE WENT 2 MONTHS WITHOUT USING ANYTHING, SO SHOULD HE BE ON A LOWER DOSE? SOME OF YOU ON HERE ADMIT TO ABUSING UP TO 40 PILLS PER DAY, HE MAXED OUT AT 7, SO IS 8 MG TOO HIGH FOR HIS USAGE?

      I need some guidance from you all. Doctor's don't know s**t, pardon my language! They haven't taken this drug or even been addicts, much less lived with one.
      Thanks!
      Christina

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      • #78
        Good News

        I saw a wonderful doctor today who specializes in drug addiction. I spent an hour with his nurse getting my whole life history and an almost an hour with the doctor. He does not take any insurancec though it was worth the $350. he said it is a ************************* to get off. he also reads the threads so see what all you people are saying about it which I thought was very cool. First he said he would give me drugs to put me in bed for 7-10 days and i would not feel well but the the drugs would really help but I would surely bein bed the whole time and not be able to do anything. I would be exhausted and out of it. I don't remember all the drugs except librium. anyway i was crying and freaking and he called this specialist pharmacist in the area that does some really out there stuff. they agreed that the pharmacist would grind the 2mg pills down and add some sort of liquid, probably saline and a dropper and make the dropper into 1/10 mg of sub and taper down that way to -0-. So I am on .5 now and I will start at .3 and then 10 days .2 and then .1 10 days and should be off. he said itm igjht be better not to take it every day, just take it when I start to get symptoms and it will be longer and longer by the time I get to the end. I wanted a quicker fix but i didnot want to be sick in bed for 10 days and then no promises. They just don't know that much about it. he said I was fortunate i was only addicted to oxycontin for 6 months fro m my back surgery. But talk to your doctors about it for those of you who are down to a minimum now and can't jump off! Carol

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        • #79
          My doctor wanted me to start on 8 mg. He said Take 4. mg and then 1/2 hour later take the other 4 mg. I was unconscious all day for about 12 hours. I was so stoned I was clueless. the whole time I was on oxycontin, percocet, dillautid after my surgery I was not high like that. we cut the dose to 4 mg morning and 4 mg at night for a couple weeks to get me started. i am down to 2/10 mg liquid compounded by my pharmacist. I am in a lot of pain today and so want to take a percocet but k now it will mess things up, not because of addiction but because of pharmacology. I have a bottle of 50 percocet 7.5 from June I have not touched, no need but today would be the day. Maybe an ativan will help. I am thinking that this whole sub thing is screwing with my anto depressants which I have been on quite awhile and work great for me Cymbalta and Wellbutrin together. Anyone else have that problem? I am really depressed and I think most of it is that being on this, I can't put the horrible surgery and recover behind me. It is like they did it yesterday. I said for weeks after that I wanted to die. ********************.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by walck View Post
            My doctor wanted me to start on 8 mg. He said Take 4. mg and then 1/2 hour later take the other 4 mg. I was unconscious all day for about 12 hours. I was so stoned I was clueless. the whole time I was on oxycontin, percocet, dillautid after my surgery I was not high like that. we cut the dose to 4 mg morning and 4 mg at night for a couple weeks to get me started. i am down to 2/10 mg liquid compounded by my pharmacist. I am in a lot of pain today and so want to take a percocet but k now it will mess things up, not because of addiction but because of pharmacology. I have a bottle of 50 percocet 7.5 from June I have not touched, no need but today would be the day. Maybe an ativan will help. I am thinking that this whole sub thing is screwing with my anto depressants which I have been on quite awhile and work great for me Cymbalta and Wellbutrin together. Anyone else have that problem? I am really depressed and I think most of it is that being on this, I can't put the horrible surgery and recover behind me. It is like they did it yesterday. I said for weeks after that I wanted to die. ********************.

            Walck............ was wondering how your doing now..... I talk to my neuro guy and he sad it best to just wean slowly and not add a needle to the pic. I do agree.

            I have been playing around with the subs and have decided that I can cut the pills in 1/4 th , then I will crush it and make tiny little piles of powder for when I get to the lower dosages that the manufactures refuse to make..... its a business and they want the money.

            PLs keep your post up....... I can learn so much by following you.

            Sister

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            • #81
              Sister and carol

              Hi ladies ... I have been telling both of you about each other and the troubles that you all are having that are so similar. One thing I have learned is to realize that I don't know everything. You two are going thru such a similar experience that I really believe you can be of benefit to one another.

              Both of you please keep me posted what is happening as I surely care what happens to you both. But I really think you two can probably help each other and provide more answers than I can. You are both going thru something with the subs that I just haven't seen others besides you experiencing at such low doses. I have repeatedly wracked my brain over and over about this. I know there is an answer, but I have not been able to figure out why you two are having the problems you are having after all the people I have seen detox off the subs. And your doses are so small.

              Please let me know how this works out. But I really think you two should spend some time talking and possibly you will come up with something I haven't been able to think of yet. Keep me posted ladies please. I am always here if I can help in any way. God bless.

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              • #82
                Sister-it was nt a needle. It was a syringe witrhout a needle so i could measure small doses but as the pharm said. he could not stabilize th epill powderi n the liquid and therefore when i thought I was takin 3/10 who know what I was taking but when into the pharm,. he freaked out and toldm e I was way in withdrawl and he made me put apice of sub under my tongue right there and then called the doctor. he also made me put a piece under my tongue. So 10 steps forward and 4 steps back. i want done. send me your number and i will call you if you want to chat. I have a great doctor, I think Robert sent you the website. Very compassionate

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                • #83
                  I sent you an e-mail........ I do go to work so between 7-4 I can not really talk.

                  Bless u

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                  • #84
                    I can hardly believe some of the things I have read on this website. I am 20 years old and was extremely stupid and still am. I became addicted to Vicodin in January 07...Over that time I became to what I viewed as extrmely heavily addicted to it...Nearing the end of abusing it I NEEDED at LEAST 10 a day to be able to function..10 750/7.5 pills that is...Even with that many I would find myself withdrawling before the end of the day...I needed 20 to be able to be happy in my day although who can be happy knowing their taking 20 pills and destroying their body......I CANT BELLIEVE some of you people saying you took 40 a day for years..How are you alive? I mean I felt like I was dying and sometimes wanted to die very badly...I think about it every day how I probably have done major damage to my body...But am I worrying myself for nothing? How have you ppl been able to take FOURTY a day for YEARS...? That blows my mind...

                    In May 2008 I reached the peak of my Vicodin abuse...it consumed my entire life...my paycheck...I couldnt work without it...and needed to spend all my money on it just to work...I finally had to some how get help and I did the whole suboxone thing...I can literally break down in tears with how it felt 30 minutes after taking suboxone...Actually feeling some what normal again for the first time in almost a year in a half.......How many opiates where some of you addicted to being on 40mg of suboxone a day? That is unheard of for me...I had no idea you could even take that much...I have NEVER taken more than 16mg...lately im taking 4 mg a day....I been on this a few months....

                    I havent seen anyone say anything like what im about to say...I feel bad about Suboxone...Because I enjoy taking it...I look forward to taking it..SOme times it makes me feel high...No one else on these forums eversays that...Why is that?.........The first time I took it I felt so good all day...I coulnt tell if I was high or if thats what feeling normal was......Lately I have been able to control myself...But before I would find myself taking extra Suboxone...I wasnt feeling withdrawl...But out of nowhere a temptation to take Suboxone....One time I ran out of Suboxone and had to go 4 days with none...That was such a horrible 4 days...It was hard to explain because I felt like it was worse than Vicodin withdrawl...But after those 4 days with none I took a whole 8mg pill and felt high alllll day.....man what else is there to say..

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                    • #85
                      Originally posted by DET Red09 View Post
                      I can hardly believe some of the things I have read on this website. I am 20 years old and was extremely stupid and still am. I became addicted to Vicodin in January 07...Over that time I became to what I viewed as extrmely heavily addicted to it...Nearing the end of abusing it I NEEDED at LEAST 10 a day to be able to function..10 750/7.5 pills that is...Even with that many I would find myself withdrawling before the end of the day...I needed 20 to be able to be happy in my day although who can be happy knowing their taking 20 pills and destroying their body......I CANT BELLIEVE some of you people saying you took 40 a day for years..How are you alive? I mean I felt like I was dying and sometimes wanted to die very badly...I think about it every day how I probably have done major damage to my body...But am I worrying myself for nothing? How have you ppl been able to take FOURTY a day for YEARS...? That blows my mind...

                      In May 2008 I reached the peak of my Vicodin abuse...it consumed my entire life...my paycheck...I couldnt work without it...and needed to spend all my money on it just to work...I finally had to some how get help and I did the whole suboxone thing...I can literally break down in tears with how it felt 30 minutes after taking suboxone...Actually feeling some what normal again for the first time in almost a year in a half.......How many opiates where some of you addicted to being on 40mg of suboxone a day? That is unheard of for me...I had no idea you could even take that much...I have NEVER taken more than 16mg...lately im taking 4 mg a day....I been on this a few months....

                      I havent seen anyone say anything like what im about to say...I feel bad about Suboxone...Because I enjoy taking it...I look forward to taking it..SOme times it makes me feel high...No one else on these forums eversays that...Why is that?.........The first time I took it I felt so good all day...I coulnt tell if I was high or if thats what feeling normal was......Lately I have been able to control myself...But before I would find myself taking extra Suboxone...I wasnt feeling withdrawl...But out of nowhere a temptation to take Suboxone....One time I ran out of Suboxone and had to go 4 days with none...That was such a horrible 4 days...It was hard to explain because I felt like it was worse than Vicodin withdrawl...But after those 4 days with none I took a whole 8mg pill and felt high alllll day.....man what else is there to say..


                      Well I am undoubtedly one of the stories you are talking about. Believe me it's nothing to be proud of to have badly abused drugs for over 35 years. And you are correct in that it's truly a miracle that a lot of us are alive. No doubt about that. I give thanks daily that not only am I alive but that I can actually communicate and function after all of the stupid and destructive things I have done. It's a miracle to say the least.

                      I am really jealous of people like you. You have screwed up for a few years but at 20 years old you have your entire life ahead of you. You are so very fortunate to be able to see the insanity and stupidity of repeating the same mistakes so many of us made in our lives. Count your blessings and give thanks.

                      When you talk about some of the crazy amounts of suboxone like 40mg that people have taken, rest assured that is an amount prescribed by someone who doesn't know what they are doing. You are taking a proper dose and most of us who have used subutex/suboxone also had scripts for 6-12mg a day. Very few people were taking the extremely high doses you mention. I spend a lot of time trying to talk people down from these ridiculous doses. They are the exception rather than the rule.

                      You say that you have been taking suboxone for a few months now. Let me point out to you that after that much time on suboxone, you will need to begin tapering down very soon or else you are going to have a really difficult time with it when you decide to move forward and stop this. I would be happy to make suggestions and help you with a tapering plan if you feel like it would help you. Just understand that as much of a blessing as the suboxone has been for you, it can quickly become just as much of a horror if you don't begin to taper that dose down soon. Good luck and God bless.

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                      • #86
                        Originally posted by Robert_325 View Post
                        Well I am undoubtedly one of the stories you are talking about. Believe me it's nothing to be proud of to have badly abused drugs for over 35 years. And you are correct in that it's truly a miracle that a lot of us are alive. No doubt about that. I give thanks daily that not only am I alive but that I can actually communicate and function after all of the stupid and destructive things I have done. It's a miracle to say the least.

                        I am really jealous of people like you. You have screwed up for a few years but at 20 years old you have your entire life ahead of you. You are so very fortunate to be able to see the insanity and stupidity of repeating the same mistakes so many of us made in our lives. Count your blessings and give thanks.

                        When you talk about some of the crazy amounts of suboxone like 40mg that people have taken, rest assured that is an amount prescribed by someone who doesn't know what they are doing. You are taking a proper dose and most of us who have used subutex/suboxone also had scripts for 6-12mg a day. Very few people were taking the extremely high doses you mention. I spend a lot of time trying to talk people down from these ridiculous doses. They are the exception rather than the rule.

                        You say that you have been taking suboxone for a few months now. Let me point out to you that after that much time on suboxone, you will need to begin tapering down very soon or else you are going to have a really difficult time with it when you decide to move forward and stop this. I would be happy to make suggestions and help you with a tapering plan if you feel like it would help you. Just understand that as much of a blessing as the suboxone has been for you, it can quickly become just as much of a horror if you don't begin to taper that dose down soon. Good luck and God bless.
                        Well I would definatly not be jealous of a person like me........People who know me and see me would not think my life is the way it is...But I think its a living hell...I hated going to school with a raging passion...I work at a job that makes me want to shoot myself every morning at 5am.....Sometimes my suboxone has me feeling like a completely normal person......Then other times I am %100 negative and cant/ dont want to do anything but sit here and read about things on here......I am terrified at the thought of having to suffer liver problems or other things related to my Vicodin problems in the future....I wont get any relief until I have a test done on my liver and kidneys...But I know it cant possibly be good knews...They make acetaminophen sound so incredibly toxic..and when I think of how much of that I pumped through my body there is no way I am a healthy man.......I have had such a hard time growing up for no reason at all..Im from a normal family and I live in a normal neighborhood...But ever since teenage years started I completely changed into a major depressed anxiety type person....I would hang with ppl who smoked weed...Weed makes me feel SO PARANOID AND SO NERVOUS...Alcohol helped me get over a lot of things..But once I took vicodins...I liked the person I am when high on Vicodin...I can actually enjoy myself....Enjoy anything really...im sure you know how it is to be high on vicodin...its like cocaine but longer....Well even vicodin becomes like coke after you become a true addict...you can take 10 pills at once then 2 hours later be feeling pissed and wanting more....

                        I just feel like I have suffered enough in my life...I sometimes feel like I am actually in hell and being punished for something...I have never done wrong to anyone...Yet only negativity comes my way.....I cant help but to believe in Karma because I was raised on the belief that doing good brings good...it seems as if no matter what misery comes my way....I dont have the stregth to deal with more problems after this Vicodin thing....If I have problems related to the use of vicodin later in life I dont think I will even be able to fight them...because at this point I STILL wonder what actually keeps me going and not just giving up on everything

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                        • #87
                          Is it normal to lower your dose of suboxone and have things be fine for about 5 days but then all a sudden feel like you need to take more really bad?

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                          • #88
                            DET Red09

                            What I am jealous of is the fact that you are so young and still have so many years left to be clean. Don't freak yourself out worrying about your liver. The liver is so resilient, plus there is nothing you can do about it but stay clean in the future. And no way you have destroyed your liver taking some vicodin and being only 20 years old. All you need to do is have them run a CBC blood test. It will give a liver count. And even if it's high, it will drop and get back to where it should be in almost no time if you stay clean.

                            Not trying to diagnose you online, but it does sound like you might have some depression issues going on. I am not qualified to make that call, but I understand based on what you have said why the drs have RXd antidepressants for you. There could be additional bodily functions that are adding to your problems, but there does seem to be some depression issues working here.

                            We are a lot alike in that any drug I ever took, bar none, I could simply walk away when it seemed things were getting out of control. I could always do that. But with opiates, they just got a hold of me and wouldn't let me go. I felt like I had never felt before and I liked it. Finally they didn't even get me high anymore. They just helped to keep me from getting sick. That is why we become dependent or addicted, whatever the case might be.

                            It's almost impossible to be able to sort out all of the things we have to deal with in life if we stay messed up on any drugs ... let alone opiates. Get the drugs out of your system while you're young and things should begin to start smoothing out some for you. I will add you to my prayers. And I am serious about that, don't mean it jokingly. When I became a Christian, that was when my life truly straightened itself out in spite of me. That would be the subject of an entirely different thread. Good luck and God bless.

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                            • #89
                              Originally posted by DET Red09 View Post
                              Is it normal to lower your dose of suboxone and have things be fine for about 5 days but then all a sudden feel like you need to take more really bad?


                              Excellent question. The thing that is doing this is the half life of the buprenorphine which is the main drug in suboxone. Don't know if you have read many of my posts about tapering off suboxone. But I always tell people to wait at least four days between reductions in dosing. That is because we can feel fine for 3-5 days, then the half life catches up with itself and we get sick. Here is how it works.

                              Buprenorphine has a half life approximately 36 hours give or take a few. That means that if we take suboxone in 36 hours half of the buprenorphine will have worked itself through our system and be out of our body. Then in another 36 hours half of the remaining buprenorphine will have done the same thing, In another 36 hours half the remaining buprenorphine will have done the same thing, and on and on, etc.

                              Now if you take the medication daily, just think how much time it will take for all of the subsequent doses to work through our system and be gone. This is why we can go four even five days before we go into actual w/d from the suboxone. Does that make sense???

                              Comment


                              • #90
                                Originally posted by Robert_325 View Post
                                Excellent question. The thing that is doing this is the half life of the buprenorphine which is the main drug in suboxone. Don't know if you have read many of my posts about tapering off suboxone. But I always tell people to wait at least four days between reductions in dosing. That is because we can feel fine for 3-5 days, then the half life catches up with itself and we get sick. Here is how it works.

                                Buprenorphine has a half life approximately 36 hours give or take a few. That means that if we take suboxone in 36 hours half of the buprenorphine will have worked itself through our system and be out of our body. Then in another 36 hours half of the remaining buprenorphine will have done the same thing, In another 36 hours half the remaining buprenorphine will have done the same thing, and on and on, etc.

                                Now if you take the medication daily, just think how much time it will take for all of the subsequent doses to work through our system and be gone. This is why we can go four even five days before we go into actual w/d from the suboxone. Does that make sense???
                                I understand what you said...But what doesnt make sense is........Well I have been taking 12mg of suboxone...Then on Sunday for other issues I dropped it to half a pill a day...4mg...I take it at about 530am...If it has the 36 hour half life...I take more exactly every 24 hours for the past 5 days...So it still doesnt explain why I just now had the urge to take more....But for the past days I havefelt fine...At least I think I did?...Sometimes itd hard to tell because I usually dont ever feel good....So when I feel lousy I dont know if its because I need more suboxone or because I am depressed...Oh and I am depressd...Thats always been obvious....

                                But youve heard this a thousand times....But I think it is very cool that there is people out there like you who seem to actually care about other people...I am so used to being around selfish people that reading your posts are refreshing and I feel a sense of calmness...Browsing around the forum I see you have many detailed posts to other users...God bless YOU for that...the world needs more people like for thigs to ever change........

                                I have spent most of my life in the Detroit area which is mainly drug abusers to the maximum...I dont want to place you in a category but when you say street drugs drinkin and smokin I imagine those fiends that roam the street...and to think one of them deciding to become clean and actually try to make a positive impact on others is amazing....But then again I mean no offense im not calling you a crackhead or anything...But I think you know what I mean..........Thanks for being a real person

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