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  • Subs Questions from a Norco abuser.

    Hi Group

    I posted earlier in the pain med forum, but probably should have posted here, so sorry for the duplicate posting.

    I have been taking 15mg of Norco around 6-7 times a day for about 6 months...that's a guesstimate, but should be pretty close. Anyway, I am down to my last 20 or so Norco and want to quit. Like others, I have work and other appointments I need to be present for and so cold turkey, besides being miserable, isn't my first choice. I got 3 (8mg/2mg) Suboxone strips from a friend and want to use them correctly...since I've never taken them, I thought I would post here for advice before I did. And I have a few questions.

    Do you think this is enough to help? How do I dose it and how long between doses? Anxiety is one of my worst w/d symptoms, and I do have a few klonopin, but is it safe to take with the subs, and does the subs help at all with anxiety associated with w/d? What else if anything will be helpful and safe to take?

    Thanks in advance for any help and advise...this forum and its members is amazing and am grateful I found it.

  • #2
    Can you get more subs? 3 isn't enough, I'm attaching the taper plan most have used. To do it right you will need more than 3.

    https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...apy-50887.html

    Read through the taper plan, it explains dosing. Honestly, I think you are better off c/t, subs are much stronger than Norco and you will be over the worst of it in 5-7 days. You really can't take subs for a short time & stop, they are different than short acting opiates.

    Before you take any subs you need to score at least 26 on the cows worksheet.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 09-17-2013, 08:44 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Hey Nikki,

      Welcome to the forum! Steph gave you the taper plan many of us have used here. In my opinion you either need more subs to do a proper taper or you can try to taper the Norco. Have you tried to lower your usage with any success? I was never successful with tapering pain pills, If I had them I was gobbling them up however others are able to. With you only using for 6 months I would maybe give that a shot. Either way we are here to support you.

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi Whats and Sharks, thanks for the response.

        Like you, I want to gobble the Norcos too but I would like to try to taper what I have left and use the subs only if the wd gets too bad and I can't get out and function. Would you suggest going longer in between doeses, or dosing the same times per day but lessening the amount (MG)? I am guessing I have about 20 left (I am scared to count!) So far I haven't been successful at either, but today is a new day and I am going to try again!

        I can try to get more subs in the meantime, how many do you think I will need? And if not, can I make what I have work if i have to? The girl I got them from says she uses 1/3 at a time for 6-8 days...do you think that would work for me?

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by 67Nikki View Post
          Hi Whats and Sharks, thanks for the response.

          Like you, I want to gobble the Norcos too but I would like to try to taper what I have left and use the subs only if the wd gets too bad and I can't get out and function. Would you suggest going longer in between doeses, or dosing the same times per day but lessening the amount (MG)? I am guessing I have about 20 left (I am scared to count!) So far I haven't been successful at either, but today is a new day and I am going to try again!

          I can try to get more subs in the meantime, how many do you think I will need? And if not, can I make what I have work if i have to? The girl I got them from says she uses 1/3 at a time for 6-8 days...do you think that would work for me?
          Nikki have you read the taper plan that Sharks Fan gave you the link to. If you can do a taper with pills that would be great. If you cant and need subs you have to score a 26 on the cows worksheet befor using subs. Do you absolutely want to get clean 100% and quit all use of opiates for good. If you do and cant do a taper with the pills and really find you need to use subs my guess is that from what you said your opiate use has been that you could induct at a fairly low amount of subs. I cant tell you how much subs you will need to have to do a taper because it depends on what dose you would end up inducting at. If you end up taking subs let us know you did and there are people on here that will work with you. You said maybe you can get more subs so you probably should because 3 8mg strips I don't believe would get you thru the taper. Keep us updated here on whats going on with yourself. Best wishes you.

          Alex

          Comment


          • #6
            Thanks everyone for being here, needless to say I am starting to freak a little.

            So I am unable to get more subs and I have about 24 norco left. I have been taking 1 1/2 at a time approximately 6 or 7 times a day. Can you tell me how to taper what I have left? I'm not sure how to do it the most comfortably. Less mg at a time or less often, or both? I plan on using the subs at 1/3 strip only if after the taper i still hit 26 on the cows scale. I will simply have to use what I have to help and be done with it.

            Looking for someone to hold on to during the ride...can someone help?

            Comment


            • #7
              Nikki
              If you can't get more subs you shouldn't take them at all. They aren't meant to be used for a few days. If anything using them in that manner will make your withdrawals when you stop taking the subs worse.

              Subs are a tool, not a magic pill.

              If you are going to try to taper you could use Roberts plan with the norco's, the idea is the same. You will be gradually dropping your dose.

              Here is a link to the taper thread, I would encourage you to read it as it contains a good amount of information & will likely answer your questions

              https://www.drugs.com/forum/featured...apy-50887.html

              Comment


              • #8
                Nikki im guessing that your friend uses subs between opiate use to tide her over am I right here? If you use 3 strips and cut them into thirds and take them for 9 days then stop you are going to suffer much worse then if you stopped norcos cold turkey. Would you be able to get more subs in about 3 weeks? If you could then you could probably do a taper with them if you absolutely have to. Subs are a very strong med and there not something to use for a few days and then just stop cold turkey. You use subs for 9 days like you said you planned on and about 3 or 4 days later you will feel like robbing a drug store to get more opiates you will feel that bad. If you can try to wean as slow as you can with the Norco you have left. If you end up and cnat get thru it and start to use subs make sure you post here befor doing so and I will try to be of any help that I can. The less Norco you can use a day if you end up deciding to take subs the less amount you would be able to induct on. Once again I hope you don't end up using subs but if you do I will be around. My best wishes to you.

                Alex

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Alex...thank you SO much for your response

                  yes, you are absolutely right. she uses the subs between norco scripts so only for a few days until she gets her next script if she runs out early. theoretically I could do the same thing if i wanted to pick up one more script of Norcos and wean that way instead. It sounds like it might be easier than trying to get the subs. Do you think that is the way to go? I could get it and come strait here to start weaning immediately. Is there a good pill taper plan here on the forum i could follow if i do it that way? I really want to be done with this nightmare, but like everone else here am scared to death of withdrawl. I have things I absolutely have to do and can't take a week or two off to withdrawl.

                  I have enough Norco for a day or two. I could get more on next saturday (not tomorrow) from my doctor. looks like that might be the way to go for me? If so either way i am going to have to use the subs for a couple of days. could you help me with that? I understand the first step is to get to 26 on the cows worksheet, which is scary enough...so when I get there I plan on inducting with 1/3 strip, right? In the meantime I will take 1 Norco (instead of 1 1/2) every 4 hours...hopefully no more than 5 per day.

                  cross your fingers for me!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by 67Nikki View Post
                    Hi Alex...thank you SO much for your response

                    yes, you are absolutely right. she uses the subs between norco scripts so only for a few days until she gets her next script if she runs out early. theoretically I could do the same thing if i wanted to pick up one more script of Norcos and wean that way instead. It sounds like it might be easier than trying to get the subs. Do you think that is the way to go? I could get it and come strait here to start weaning immediately. Is there a good pill taper plan here on the forum i could follow if i do it that way? I really want to be done with this nightmare, but like everone else here am scared to death of withdrawl. I have things I absolutely have to do and can't take a week or two off to withdrawl.

                    I have enough Norco for a day or two. I could get more on next saturday (not tomorrow) from my doctor. looks like that might be the way to go for me? If so either way i am going to have to use the subs for a couple of days. could you help me with that? I understand the first step is to get to 26 on the cows worksheet, which is scary enough...so when I get there I plan on inducting with 1/3 strip, right? In the meantime I will take 1 Norco (instead of 1 1/2) every 4 hours...hopefully no more than 5 per day.

                    cross your fingers for me!
                    Nikki what you are asking me to help you do is something I am not real comfortable with. First off you stated you can get another script for norcos next week and could then try to taper off of them. Do you honestly think you can do a pill taper? I for one couldn't do one because if the pills were in front of me the addict in me just couldn't taper off with pills. You have way more in 3 strips then you need to get you to next week. But what happens after you get the norcos if you cant taper with them. Im an addict and while in the middle of my addiction would do anything to avoid getting dope sick. Im not trying to be rude or lecture you but you need to figure out a plan if you truly desire to get clean. Im sure your going to end up using subs no matter what I tell you so I just want to say that 1/3 mg of a strip is way more then you will need to take. Get to a 26 on the cows worksheet and then induct say at 1 mg and wait just like its outlined in the taper plan. The lees you use the better off you will be. Nikki as far as a taper plan on the norcos im sure theres some plan you can use but ive never done a pill taper so I cant advise you on it.

                    Alex

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Like Alex, and Sharks, I am not comfortable with your plan either. And the 1/3 of a strip is way too much. Follow Alex's advice and get to a 26 on the COWS and then induct at what he recommends and no more. Subs are a powerful, powerful drug and they are not a miracle cure. You will be stopping the sub next Saturday when you refill the norco. I have no idea how much norco you're going to have to take to stop the w/d from the sub or if you will have any issues with the sub at all. What you are really going to have to do is decide if you want off these pills at all. I know you're scared to death of w/d, everyone is. As far as tapering the norco, a fairly decent rule of thumb is to decrease by .25% every 4 days and stick to it. Keep your doses evenly spread apart. We will help you no matter what you decide. But you have to want to be clean more than anything you ever wanted in this lifetime.

                      How many days of Norco will that give you at 5 pills per day? Best wishes.

                      Peace,

                      Iloerosee

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I have 11 Norco and 8 7.5mg vicodin. This will last me three days, four if I really stretch it.

                        The subs strips I have are 8mg/2mg...so is that 8mg or 2mg?

                        I absolutely hear you about not using the subs if I can help it. I really do. But not functioning is not an option right at this moment.

                        I am serious about getting off this ride. I absolutely can't do this anymore. I am beat. I think I can wean off the Norco's if want to badly enough....and I really, really want to. Will it be hard? Absolutely. But harder is going thru full blown withdrawl. It's what keeps me using. If I can get down to a low enough dosage on the Norco to jump, then I absolutely DON'T want to us the Subs. OMG, I am at my wits end and just don't know what to do. I am scared and confused.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Nikki I have no idea how long its going to take you to get to 26 on the cows worksheet once your out of the pills you have left. I was inducted on subs at a meth clinic and was told not to use any opiates for at least 24 hrs befor I got there and they never used the worksheet on me. I just know I was feeling bad when I got there and inducted and it did the trick. Sounds like by the time you use rest the remaining pills you have left and get to a 26 it will be almost time to get your script filled. You want to induct at the lowest amount you can for 2 reasons. Once you take subs it will be awhile befor you can use the norcos again because the subs will be stuck to your receptors. Also you don't want to take a chance of going into PWD and the lower your sub induction in case your not at 26 the less you would be sick then if you inducted at a higher amount. Once you have subs in your system and use opiates again you wont get sick then its if you have opiates on your receptors and use subs the subs will rip what opiates on your receptors off and that is when PWD would occur. Hope that makes sense to you.

                          Alex

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The subs are 8mg bupenorphine (sub) and 2mg. naloxone.

                            You have to be in moderate to severe w/d to induct the sub, that is essential. A 26 on the COWS is best. I would google cutting sub and cut a strip into 1mg. pieces, as 1mg. is what Alex advised that you induct at. Doesn't sound like you've taken subs before. Be careful with these. As has been said: Subs are strong medicine.

                            How many norco have you been surviving on in the past 3 days? If you can really cut the norco and really stretch it, I would do that. You may be uncomfortable, but you will survive this, especially if you only take the norco when you start to feel really bad. Like do 4 , 4, 3 and maybe 1- 7.5mg. That takes care of three days. Then you have 7- 7.5mg. take 4, then 3. That gives you 5 days. You have Friday left to deal with. Friday will not be all that pleasant, but perhaps not that bad either. Friday night won't be pleasant. But this is the safest way to do this, IMO. There are supplements that you can take if you decide to do this this way.

                            Then I wouldn't even bother with the script. Just go c/t. over the weekend. By monday you will be feeling somewhat better, which be day 4 of c/t. and you would probably be over the hump. However, this is my opinion. Believe me I know how scared you are. I have been there more than once. There are other people on this board who stuck it out using high doses and worked through the entire w/d.

                            I don't know what else I can tell you. Other than what others have shared here. I know you are scared and I KNOW your brain(rationally maybe so, but addiction isn't rational) doesn't want to give up the Norco.

                            Peace,

                            Iloerose

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think someone already mentioned that you may not even hit 26 with the dose if Norco's you are taking. If you are successful in tapering the Norco you really shouldn't need the subs. You will be uncomfortable but it should be manageable. And honestly I think you will have an easier time with c/t off Norco than doing a sub taper.

                              And yes, w/d is scary but it's going to be like a bad flu. If I had never moved beyond Norco I wouldn't have used subs. I can remember running out of Norco early & I wish I had been smart enough to stay off after the worst of it because looking back it wasn't that bad.

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