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  • #16
    Hi heavy just saying hello and welcoming you to the forum. Rose and Alex have been amazing in my help to begin subs(twice now) and get stable. I'm now stable and just recently made a reduction. I totally understand your story. I too ended up in this position after an injury. Never knew this would happen. I always say if only I had known. I had a lot if difficulty making it to 26. I was lucky enough both times I inducted to take my last dose before bed and then start after 12-14 hrs and I haven't experienced any pwd. I'm thankful for that because God knows making it to 26 would be super hard especially with 3 children constantly needing a functioning mother. Pls keep posting and let us know how everything is going for you and where you were able to induct at.

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    • #17
      Hi heavy,

      It sounds like you got stable on your first day at 4mg total.

      (You said you took 2, then 0.5, then 0.5 again, then 1 mg)

      So if you stabilized at 4, that is the dose you're gonna want to take for the next 3-4 days.

      You should be taking the same dose at the same time of day, to allow a steady build up in your system.

      Most people would suggest 2mg in the morning and 2 in the afternoon/evening. But you can also take all 4 all at once if you prefer.

      You really don't wanna get in the habit of taking it sporadically thru the day. You will thank yourself later or getting on a stable schedule asap.


      It sounds like you've already had 2mg today. So wait until this evening and take the other 2. Don't forget to allow it plenty of time to dissolve. 8mg takes 15 min minimum, so if I were you I'd try to give it as long as possible to dissolve, like ten minutes if you can.

      Hang in there and this will all be a distant memory soon.
      Last edited by Anonymous; 10-02-2013, 01:59 PM. Reason: Typo fix

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      • #18
        Heavy: I'm totally with SS. Get your dose stable now at 4mg. per day and no more. This is the time that you will start to stabilize on a dose. As was mentioned you can take the 4mg. at one time or split the dose. Most people that take one dose, take that dose mid-morning. Or you can take 2mg. mid-morning and then around 8 hours later take the other 2mg. The imperative now is that you get stable at specific times, no more than twice per day. The sub WILL hold you once it is consistently in your system.

        Do not take sub willy-nilly. You will have more difficulty tapering unless you get stable and are taking the sub at specific times. Stay with us and we will help you. Hang Tough,

        Peace,

        Iloerose

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        • #19
          Thanks for the replies and the input. Sorry I didn't write yesterday. The 2nd was our anniversary so we went out to dinner and then decided to stop at the bar my wife works at (but has taken off since my surgery) to see some friends. I used to drink a lot at the bar....was never someone that drank at home...but would go out 3-4 times a week. Anyway...that all stopped when my wife got pregnant a couple years ago. I've drank twice since...once after one of my best friends passed away and then once when my beloved 49ers got spanked in the Super Bowl....lol. Anyway...that was just a quick back story because of my next question. First of all...I know that drinking on any opiates is a no no...but most of us didn't make it here following rules very strictly...lol. I had probably 7-8 drinks...and 2 shots. I didn't even have the slightest buzz. We'll wait...what was weird was that I started to get a buzz after a few drinks...but then it disappeared immediately and I didn't feel a buzz the whole rest of the night. I gave you the back story to show you that I'm not an ignorant drinker. I spent the better part of 20 years at the bar. I'm a paramedic...by no means do I think I know everything about the human body....but I get by. Do the subs have some sort of effect on alcohol...or affect the way you feel while drinking? Not looking for any really scientific explanations...just wondering if anyone else had ever drank on them and had a similar experience. The second part was that yesterday I felt horrrrrriblee...like the worst hangover ever....and didn't even have a buzz the night before. Idk...I definitely won't do it again...the whole experience just made me wonder if they had anything to do with that. As far as the suboxone goes...I think maybe as more of the ER morphine wore off in the beginning...I needed to take more of the subs. I have seemed to stabilize though on 1.33 mg in the morning and the same at night. I cut the 8mg strip in half....and then cut each half into 3 pieces. 1 piece every 12 hours seems to do the trick right now. Did that yesterday and today. The last time I wrote was the 2nd and I was still going "willy-nilly" as you put it iloerose...it just seemed really inconsistent. But now it's seemed to level out and become predictable. One last thing that I've also noticed. I will feel my temperature start to become unstable and my stomach will get knotty....if that makes sense. So I will take the dose...I usually let it sit for about 10 minutes...then it takes about 20 more minutes and I will feel my temperature start to regulate...and then I will get very sleepy, like I can't keep my eyes open...but that only lasts for about 10 minutes...and then I snap out of it and feel great (well....normal)...lol....for about 12-14 hours. Does that happen to any of y'all? Alright....well that's about all I have to report right now. Thanks again for all the input and assistance. Nice to meet you Hopethishelps....and I'm sorry for whatever injury you had to lead you here. I know that story all too well. I wish you the best with your treatment as well. Iloerose and systolic_suckerpunch have been invaluable so far for me as well. I thought I had a pretty solid plan going into this but it turns out I had most of it wrong...lol. I am so glad I came to this forum to post my questions about it. Talk to y'all soon. Gonna eat some breakfast and then I'll look up your posts Hopethishelps. Curious to read about how you've done it with the 3 children. One is hard enough...and I have a lot of help. You must be some sort of superhuman...lol...jk...but not really. Good luck to you

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          • #20
            Tried to find an edit button but couldn't find one...Hopethisworks*....not Hopethishelps...sorry

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            • #21
              Hi Heavy...just thought I'd pop over to check on ya. I wish you the best of luck with your taper! Hope you're well.
              -Katherine

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              • #22
                It sounds like you are taking 2.66mg. per day? As was posted above that may not be enough to stabilize you. that extra .34mg which would take you to 3mg. per day is a pretty large dose as far as subs are concerned and perhaps you want to go to 3mg. in two doses of 1.5mg., on am the other pm. You should not drop your dose until you are stable or you will have trouble all the down. GET STABLE first, so you are not grabbing a sliver hear and there.
                Wish you luck

                Peace,

                Iloeorse

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                • #23
                  3 may be the ticket...I was good that one day on 2.66...but also I guess the day before I probably took closer to 4 and had some leftovers floating around in there. My symptoms were run of the mill...hot flash...covered head to toe in sweat...feeling like I'm getting stabbed in the gut....good times. Probably just gonna have to find some more subs which isn't a problem...maybe a few more strips

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                  • #24
                    Heavy,

                    You will have w/d symptoms until you stabilize, which can take a couple of days. Once you get stable you need to do seat the same time everyday. It's all about consistency, don't wait too long between doses or you won't be stable. It's really important that you don't wait until you feel w/d symptoms, you have to take them regularly.

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                    • #25
                      Heavy the most important thing you need to do as Rose and Sharks have pointed out is to get a dose like 3 mg and stay there and get good and stable on it befor you can start the taper plan. You cant take a certain amount one day and a different amount the next day or the plan wont work. I was on subs for 4 months and I was inducted at a clinic at a very unneeded high dose of subs and didn't find this site until I had been on subs for a few weeks. I used Roberts taper plan and it worked great for me. I myself just dosed once a day at around noon my entire time on subs but several do the twice a day dose. From what I have read on your thread my guess is 3 mg would do you ok it looks like. Just get stable and follow the taper plan and you will only have to do this once. My best wishes to you.

                      Alex

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                      • #26
                        I wanted to talk about the alcohol for a minute. I'm not much of a drinker, but from time to time I will have one or 2 of these strawberry-lime flavored malt drinks, i call them pink beer. I don't even know why I do it, because they never have an effect. Reading what you wrote kind of reminded me of that.

                        I think you're playing a dangerous game with drinking that many drinks while you're taking suboxone. It sounds to me like you kept drinking because you wanted to feel different, even tho it didnt happen after 3 or 4. That sounds like addictive thinking. Which I am struggling every day with. It wasn't until people here told me that when I was wanting an extra half a sub because I was upset or sick to my stomach that it was addictive thinking that my eyes were opened to the truth of it.

                        Maybe it's a society thing, to want what we want when we want it, especially to help bad feelings go away. But this is the time to learn about yourself in this regard and to consciously change those thought patterns.

                        My point is, that altho I've personally never heard of people having problems from an occasional drink while on subs, I have seen many many people rely on the alcohol to help get them thru while getting off of opiates, and they just ended up with an addiction to alcohol on top of everything else. I would hate to see that happen to you.

                        I get the impression that you don't consider yourself an addict, and that's fine, but you may want to give some thought to NA or AA or counseling or something to help you change your thinking while you are detoxing your body. Even if you don't want to start with a meeting, you can get the NA and AA books for free online to download. I have them on my iPhone as PDF files to read whenever I choose. Just reading them to see what it's all about wouldn't hurt anything.

                        Just a thought.

                        =)
                        Last edited by Anonymous; 10-06-2013, 07:25 PM.

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                        • #27
                          Been a while since I checked in...sorry about that. Anyway...I know it wasn't the right thing to do but I didn't really have a choice...and I wouldn't recommend this to anyone else...but I dropped to 0.5 after a few days at 1mg. About 3 days into taking 0.5 once a day...I guess it caught up to me and I started getting WD symptoms. Took another half mg and felt better, the next few days I stayed at 1mg and then quit taking it. I started to take my gabapentin any loperamide and I am tapering those down every day. This is day 4 off the subs and I actually feel pretty awesome. Today I took 24mg of loperamide and 1800mg of gabapentin. I started at 40mg of lope and 2400mg of gabapentin. Idk...I mean I get the occasional chills and sweaty knuckles...I just say that cause it's weird....it's the only time I've ever felt my knuckles sweat. Occasional stomach cramp....but very minor...and some anxiety...but seriously it's not bad at all. Was out today changing out lights on the truck. Washed my wife's car and my truck. I feel great. I take some Benadryl at night to help sleep. Had some pretty bad restless legs a couple nights ago so I took some vitamin C and it stopped. I know they say take potassium but I have had RLS for years...usually after binge drinking t the bar...lol...and vitamin C has always helped...even before I knew that they had a name for it. I just thought it was the jimmy legs. Dealt with it for over 30 years. It's not a big deal for me...I just get up and go downstairs to the couch and watch some tv till it goes away so I don't keep my wife up. But aaaaaaaaanyway...just wanted to give a status update....and systolic_suckerpunch....I haven't drank since. And really had only drank on special occasions probably 4 times in the previous 2+ years. There was really no way to reply to your post without sounding like I was in denial or something...lol. But if you knew me personally...you'd know it's not a problem for me....but I do appreciate the concern. Idk if this post is gonna get deleted or not since I talked about other drugs and doses...I had one deleted before...but I'm not sure why. Never got a notice of anything. I'm not trying to break any rules...just writing down everything that I am doing to help myself get off these stupid things. As always....thanks for any input in advance...I do really appreciate the things y'all have to say and the advice you give....peace

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                          • #28
                            Heavy: You're right, I wouldn't recommend what you did to try to break an opiate habit/dependence to anyone. First of all, you never stabilized on the subs or you could have possibly gotten down with relative ease and a chance to come to terms with your dependence had you done this correctly. Secondly, subs are extremely powerful: right around a 72 hour half life and .5mg. is a large amount of sub, jumping from 1mg. is way too much to jump from. Then you jump from the frying pan into the fire to minimize the w/d with the large amounts of gabapentin, which not considered addicting, can be as harmful as a benzo drug and the large dose of loperimide which can cause dehydration. And then how high a dose of vitamin C?, large doses of vitamin C can cause kidney problems. Thirdly, you don't have to justify drinking here: there is no judgement here, except it is a fact that sometimes one habit can change to dependence for another. They gyst of this is that there is NO magic cure for opiate w/d. NONE. You are playing with fire. I do believe you are deflecting the seriousness of your dependence. And I don't mean to be judgemental or antagonistic. No, I wouldn't recommend this way to jump an opiate.
                            Dehydration can cause restless leg: opiates dehydrate. Best cure? Drink plenty of fluids: water, pure fruit juices, stay away from energy drinks and soda. Gatorade also helps with RLS and cramping muscles. Eat well: avoid processed food.
                            I am sorry to sound harsh, because after all, I'm an addict myself although not active. I also know you're trying to do your best. Please don't let my post interfere with your posting here. I DO wish you the best success in this plan. But then again, I do worry.

                            Peace,

                            Iloerose
                            Last edited by Anonymous; 10-17-2013, 10:39 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Heavy: I want to partly apologize for the harshness in the above post in light of what you posted on another thread: I do mean what I said about you doing the best you can with what you have at hand. Please realize I do wish you the best.

                              rose

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                              • #30
                                No worries Rose....I take criticism pretty well and I know it just comes from concern. That's why I made sure to say I didn't recommend it to anyone. To answer your questions though. The vitamin c I take is the chewable 500mg. Idk why it helps....but it does. I've also chugged a bunch of OJ in the middle of the night in the past to help. It's just something I have figured out that helps me with it over the last 30+ years. I really didn't have a choice either about jumping off at 1mg of subs because that was all I had. I did a lot of reading beforehand about the gaba and the loperamide. Almost 3 years ago when I got injured...my doc started me on 300mg of the gaba and eventually it got up to 1800/day because it just didn't work well for me at lower doses. My dad had it prescribed once and he said he was a zombie after just 300mg and had to quit taking it....so it is different for everyone. Concerning the lope...I have had to take it in the past because workers comp is a nightmare and they would screw up paperwork or whatever every few months...leaving me high and dry and forced to figure out how to get by until they got their stuff together. So over the past 3 years...I have learned what and how much of certain things it takes to work for me....and only me. That's why I can't recommend what I do to other people. Their bodies may be different. I've always needed more than most people of most any type of drug. I have a pretty fast metabolism....idk if that has anything to with it...but I should seriously weigh 400lbs with the stuff that I eat. My wife hates it that I can eat a pint of ice cream every night and chocolate during the day....among other things....and stay the same size...lol. Today I will take 20mg lope and 1500 of the gaba at noon. I'm able to drop the mg's of both every day with no ill effects. Neither of which interact with the opiate receptors in my brain apparently...so those are healing in the meantime.

                                I start physical therapy Monday and hopefully can be back to work before Christmas. I thought it was funny that I got a call from the pain mgmt docs office this morning. They had said they couldn't see me anymore because I was getting my surgery through my group health that I have through the fire dept. The work comp adjuster had said even though I won my case and my injury was compensable....that since I decided to have the surgery done through my group health....any and all care relating to the surgery wouldn't be covered until I recovered. At that point I could start seeing the PM doc again. I told her she was stupid and asked why would I have to see him after I was recovered...lol. But the PM doc's office called this morning (one month after surgery) to tell me I needed to come in so that they could properly wean me off the meds. I told her not to worry about it...and that after they left me in the dark to fend for myself...I took care of it.

                                As for workers comp....I will NEVER go thru them again. If I get my leg chopped off at work....I will throw it in my backpack....hop home....and then throw my leg on the lawn and lay next to it and say I fell out of the tree. It's been a nightmare the past 3 years. Idk how they get away with their shenanigans. I know this isn't a work comp forum...lol...just got caught up typing. As for the subs...you really did do me a solid informing me on the proper way of taking them and how much. I was gonna start off at a much higher dose than I should have until you steered me in the right direction. I'll keep y'all updated on how it's going.
                                Last edited by Anonymous; 10-18-2013, 10:33 AM. Reason: Typos

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