Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

On my sub taper and could use advice.

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • On my sub taper and could use advice.

    Hi humans,

    I have a thread on need to talk but this post would be better suited here.

    Brief background:
    Been addicted to opiates mainly roxicodone 30mgs for over 3 years now. I would use usually 90mg but in the last few weeks it has escalated to 150mg. Throughout my history of drug use I was also somehow able to skip a couple days in a week without anything. I did a pretty good job of not using back-to-back days too many times. Never prescribed, bought off the street and snorted or mostly smoked. In the last few years my life has turned upside down.

    I started suboxone maybe 2 months ago because i literally tell myself "this is the last time" every time i used for 2 years now. I was just not confident in my ability to go cold turkey due to my relapse history. But once i got a hold of suboxone i started a destructive habit of using subs one day and using my DOC the next. Many times i would use BOTH ON THE SAME DAY.
    I decided enough is enough and ever since i posted here i have been roxicodone free for 4 days. Even though i am using suboxone i am still a bit proud of myself since this is the LONGEST i have abstained from roxies in a long time.

    Ok so i have inducted myself using Robert 325s method at 2mg. I tried to use the least amount as possible yet enough to know that using roxies again would be a waste.

    I have a few questions.

    I can honestly say that the last 4 days have been difficult for me. I am trying to assess what is mental and what is real. I understand that there is a "stabilizing" period and i thought i would have hit it by now. I feel very nauseous, anxious, clammy hands and feet like im in a constant state of mild w/d. I am also having major cravings but i know that part is something i will and can work on. I understand that suboxone isnt a miracle drug (although i have read many reports of people saying it is) but i am a bit worried that my dose isn't high enough, and that tomorrow will be my 5th day so i will have to reduce my dose to 1.5.

    To the ones that know, what do you guys think? Should i stay on my dose a little longer? Will dropping my dose actually make me feel better?


    Thanks!

  • #2
    Originally posted by Harry Spotter View Post
    Hi humans,

    I have a thread on need to talk but this post would be better suited here.

    Brief background:
    Been addicted to opiates mainly roxicodone 30mgs for over 3 years now. I would use usually 90mg but in the last few weeks it has escalated to 150mg. Throughout my history of drug use I was also somehow able to skip a couple days in a week without anything. I did a pretty good job of not using back-to-back days too many times. Never prescribed, bought off the street and snorted or mostly smoked. In the last few years my life has turned upside down.

    I started suboxone maybe 2 months ago because i literally tell myself "this is the last time" every time i used for 2 years now. I was just not confident in my ability to go cold turkey due to my relapse history. But once i got a hold of suboxone i started a destructive habit of using subs one day and using my DOC the next. Many times i would use BOTH ON THE SAME DAY.
    I decided enough is enough and ever since i posted here i have been roxicodone free for 4 days. Even though i am using suboxone i am still a bit proud of myself since this is the LONGEST i have abstained from roxies in a long time.

    Ok so i have inducted myself using Robert 325s method at 2mg. I tried to use the least amount as possible yet enough to know that using roxies again would be a waste.

    I have a few questions.

    I can honestly say that the last 4 days have been difficult for me. I am trying to assess what is mental and what is real. I understand that there is a "stabilizing" period and i thought i would have hit it by now. I feel very nauseous, anxious, clammy hands and feet like im in a constant state of mild w/d. I am also having major cravings but i know that part is something i will and can work on. I understand that suboxone isnt a miracle drug (although i have read many reports of people saying it is) but i am a bit worried that my dose isn't high enough, and that tomorrow will be my 5th day so i will have to reduce my dose to 1.5.

    To the ones that know, what do you guys think? Should i stay on my dose a little longer? Will dropping my dose actually make me feel better?


    Thanks!
    Hi there. No, you definitely do NOT want to drop your dose. Doesn't sound like you're stable at all. You only drop once you're stable. My story is very similar to yours. For years, I was using large amounts of Norco (or whatever I could get my hands on) every month, then when I would run out, I would switch back to subs. Yes, I dosed Norco and subs on the same day many, many times too. I think this constant back and forth with Norco and subs really messed me up. When I re-inducted on subs, I tried to stabilize at 3 mg and sat there feeling like sh*t for about 10 days. I didn't want to increase but finally went to 4 mg and that did the trick. I stabilized and dropped to 3 mg after about 6 days. Now I'm down to 1.75 mg.

    I'm not saying you need 4 mgs, but I do think you need a bit more sub to stabilize. Once I stabilized, the only real complaint I had was a little sweating and mild anxiety but it wasn't a big deal. It was manageable.

    Hopefully Rose or Alex will drop by soon and I'm assuming they'll also say you're not stabilized and may need a bit more sub.

    -Katherine
    Last edited by Anonymous; 10-21-2013, 08:05 PM.

    Comment


    • #3
      Thanks for the response Katherine.

      Yeah, something about using both at the same time makes me feel like we wreaked havoc on our receptors. I had this plan that i would use only .5mg-1mg for a week or so and stop everything all together. But as the hours rolled by i gave in to my cravings and used my DOC. This became a terrible habit.

      So, once you stabilized, you felt pretty good throughout the day?

      I really don't want to up my dose but i also do want to do this right. I am hoping that what i am experiencing will pass in a day or two. Or maybe its just my body expecting to get a dose of roxicodone soon since it was use to both drugs >>>>>>>>> through me simultaneously. Is this just wishful thinking?

      I mean i KNOW that the subs are definately doing something. For negative effects I havent had bowel movement in a few days and i am having extreme difficulty reaching climax (sorry but maybe useful information).
      For positive effects i am having moments of clarity and feel good to not be all doped up and wasting countless hours and money. I already saved 200 bucks

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes, I think that's wishful thinking .. lol. Seems to me you need to up your dose a bit. I didn't want to up my dose either when I was first trying to stabilize, but once I did I felt so much better within 24 hours. Yeah, I felt pretty normal throughout the day after that. Just a few minor symptoms - some just mental. I certainly didn't feel like I was in mild WD, like you said.

        By the way, sub (and I think most opiates) can really mess with your sex life. That's been the case with me for many years now and I can't wait for things to get back to normal in that department! As far as the constipation, that's probably normal. Try some Imodium, works wonders.

        When I decided to raise my dose a little, I started with .5 mg and waited a day. Next day added another .5 mg and finally stabilized there. You could try that if you want. Or, just go ahead to 3 mg. I wouldn't be surprised if you need it since you've been taking subs for a long time already.

        Let me know how it goes!
        Katherine

        Comment


        • #5
          Harry

          The 4 days part isn't set in stone, it's more of a guide. You are correct, all that back & forth is affecting your ability to stabilize. You will get there, it might take a few more days. Just do NOT drop until you are stable. I had very little discomfort because I followed Akwx's advice and didnt rush.

          It's important to stabilize, if you drop too soon you will struggle throughout your taper. Back to the 4 days thing, that is based on the fact that subs have a long half life. If you need 7 days you will be ok, the idea is to not get complacent at a dose. It's a balancing act, you don't want to stay at a dose too long but you also don't want to drop too fast. Everyone is different, try not to overthink things. Listen to your body, give it a chance to heal.

          How are you feeling otherwise? Do you feel ok? You might not feel 100% right away because of all the opiates, that's ok. You shouldn't feel w/d's either. Initially you might feel a little "off" and tired, that's all part of stabilizing. If you are feeling w/d symptoms then increase by .50mg, don't start adding more in large doses, you might just need a little more. But if you are feeling a little off, hold off if you can.

          Comment


          • #6
            I'm suck a dork. I didn't mean Imodium for constipation. Duh.

            If it persists, try an over-the-counter med or natural remedies like supplements or even prune juice.

            How are you feeling?

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi ladies,

              I woke up today feeling decent. I just took my first dose and i notice whenever i do i start feeling a little nauseous. Like its the subs thats making me feel weird not the lack of. Im trying very hard to listen to my body but after years of abuse its kind if difficult to objectively assess.

              During the period (about 2 months) i was abusing both subs and roxies i only used about 3.5 8mg sub strips so a total of 28mg of subs so i hope i didnt do too much damage.

              While i was actively using i went through insane emotional rollercoaster rides through peaks and valleys. Now that i am on subs i am still moody but the valleys arent as low anymore so thats a good thing.

              I feel like my body is somewhat stabilizing now. I REALLY REALLY dont want to up my dose. Im trying to not be stubborn and want to do this right but i think im good at 2mg for now. I'll stick to this dose for another day or two.

              I noticed i look alot healthier and better. I still find it kind of difficult to focus on one thing for too long, my thoughts are kind of all over the place. When my mind and body is not actively engaged in something i start to obsess about my cravings so im trying to stay as busy as possible.

              blahblahblah

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Harry my name is Alex aand congrats on your decision to become opiate free. I see you are trying to get stable at 2 mg and see that Iwant and Sharks have already offered you some good advise. Your last post you stated you thought you were good at 2 mg so if thats the case i would remain there at least 2 more days to make sure befor even considering dropping. The induction part is probably the most important part of the taper plan to make it work right. The constipation is one of the side effects that subs can cause and it should clear up on its own soon. My best wishes to you Harry and i will talk to you later

                Alex

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thank you Alex for the support!

                  I spent the last few hours soaking up all the stories and advice this forum had to offer, you and shark are awesome people for getting through it and sticking around to help others. I hope that i have that kind of empathy when i get all of this behind me!

                  Today was kind of tough for me. I think i read shark saying this in her thread but i feel waves of emotions minute by minute. One minute i feel great and the next my heart is about to jump out of my chest. I keep expecting myself to feel "perfect" but thats just unrealistic.

                  I had the whole day to myself and i honestly just did not know what to do. Days like this i would go out and grab, come back home and be completely content with doing absolutely nothing. I would sit in front of my computer or ipad and just google the most absurd things. The amount of time that i have wasted kind of makes me sick to my stomach, not the mention the $$$. Yet, in the back of my head this voice kept whispering to me "pssttt....hey, hey you, wouldnt it be great if you had a little something right now".

                  Drug addiction is absolutely a disease IMO. To know how destructive it is to ones life and STILL wanting to do it? How sick is that? Its sick, literally sick.

                  On a brighter note. I am finally having some bowel movement ))))

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Good to see the constipation is gone Harry as I recall I had it for my first 5 or 6 days on subs. you stated that drug addiction is a disease IMO. Theres no question about it being a disease. My DOC for years was alcohol and until I went to a treatment center and became involved in AA back in 1992 did I come to fully understand the disease part of it. I had been arrested for Drunk Driving back in late 1985 and to get my drivers >>>>>>> back I had to attend 18 hrs of classes as that was the law here at the time. Anyone in the class for that month that had a BAC of over .15 had to take 4 more classes as they figured if you were driving a car at over .15 you might have a problem. Also I was suppose to go to 10 AA meetings during this time. Ended up going to 7 meetings and just lied about attending 3 others. I know they stressed the disease part of alcoholism during these classes but I just wanted my >>>>>>> back so it all went in 1 ear and out the other. In the summer of 1992 I had blood work done and my liver count was about 12 times higher then regular. I tried to stop on my own and would take 2 and 3 week breaks and tell myself I would control it better the next time. I kept getting worse and didn't realize I was battling a disease that was progressing as time went by. I couldn't understand that even if I wasn't drinking I had a disease that was progressing for the worst even when I wasn't drinking. I came to understand it in late 1992 when I went to treatment on my own as I was getting worse and worse as time went by. I stayed sober for 14 months only to attempt some controlled drinking and spent 11 years continuing the insanity. Ended up in Nov of 2005 taking my last drink. I used opiates recreationally for some time befor that ended up out of control also. I know today that I am a addict to mind altering substances and will be one until the day that I die. Today I am ok with that. As long as I am a recovering addict its something I am alright with. I have a disease which I will always have IMO as I don't believe I will ever be a recovered addict. A recovering one yes a recovered one no. Harry I jumped off subs over 10 months ago and I still hear those little whispers myself. If I were to follow up one of those whispers and use one of two things would end up happening. This is based on my track record of many years. I would use an opiate and be off to the races real fast or I would use an opiate and get by with it and my crazy mind would tell myself I used and im ok and I can use just every now and then. That would not last very long and I would be off to the races just a little slower. Sorry if I turned this into rambling Harry but when you mentioned disease it just all came to mind. Talk with you later.

                    Alex

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Seems like you have been to hell and back alex. I am glad to hear that your back on track man.

                      I have been on 2mg for 7 days now to make sure i was stabilized. I took 1 mg during the day and i am about to take .5 now. Is it okay to take 2 different doses on the same day? The reason i am doing this is to slowly stop taking my PM dose so i can only dose ONCE a day. Or should i just be doing .75 in the day and .75 at night?

                      I dont even know what "stabilized" is supposed to feel like. I still get short periods of intense cravings which i dont think is supposed to be normal when your on subs. But it passes eventually but comes back sooner or later almost always. I am trying not to count the days because i dont really consider being on subs clean time but today will be my 8th day without any roxies which is pretty huge to me. I dont remember the last time i have been without them for this long.

                      Last night i was running some errands and one of the things i had to do required for me to drive by the area my dealer lives. I wish i can say that i didnt pay it no mind and had no desire but that was not the case. As i was driving by i had to talk myself out of doing something extremely stupid. The rational part of me KNOWS how stupid a relapse would be but the irrational drug addict in me did not care one eff. I've been reading alot of literature these days (articles, books etc) about drugs and drug addiction to try and get a deeper understanding of this disease i have and it has helped me. To know that i am not crazy, weak or a bad person but rather i have an illness.

                      You punish bad behavior. You treat illness.

                      A part of me gets really sad. I get sad for many reasons but the biggie is that i cannot do what i want. I "think" i want to do drugs and i get sad that i wont allow myself. Its like being a little kid all over again. Like when you really want candy but your mom wont let you eat it. I "think" i want drugs but what i REALLY want is to lead a productive and successful life which requires me to be CLEAN.

                      I have a loving family, an amazing beautiful girlfriend, and a few friends i consider my brothers. Yet, i feel so alone...so isolated and disconnected from the world.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Heya,

                        I take 2 different doses during the day, and have ever since I dropped below 8. I got Alex's ok about it, so I don't see how it could be a problem for you.

                        =)

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Harry

                          You are fine taking 2 doses a day, just try to stick to no more than 2 doses. Try to space them 8-12 hours apart, same time everyday.

                          Are you going to NA meetings or therapy? I think that would help you with your cravings and the isolation you are feeling. In NA meetings you will meet other people who are going through the same things and understand your struggles. I urge you to find a meeting.

                          You have to try to find the positives, I know that's tough right now. But you said you haven't gone this long without Roxie's, that is a step in the right direction. No you aren't clean, but you are going in the right direction. If you took a Roxie how would you feel 4 hours later? Is it worth it?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks sucker punch I have been taking two different doses on the same day and no complications!

                            Sharksfan, I am not going to NA meetings yet but tommorow I will push myself to go. It's strange but I feel better after I dropped to 1.5. I have been on 1.5 for 5 days now and tommorow I will drop to 1.125.
                            I am pretty happy with my progress ESP since I didn't relapse. This is the second longest time I have gone without roxies. The first time being over 2 years ago.

                            So far I have saved hundreds of dollars and I feel much healthier. I still have intense cravings but they pass much quicker by now. I picture myself smoking a pill of tin foil or crushing it then snorting it and it makes me feel sick. The nausea is still a problem but Motrin seems to help a bit.

                            I have a question for you guys. I have the 8mg subs so how on earth am I supposed to cut a .125 piece? I don't have extra subs to waste so I have to be very careful. Any suggestions?!

                            Thanks

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Do you have the pills or the strips?

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X