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  • #61
    WOW that is so scary! Just goes to show you never think it could happen...until it happens to you. That is traumatizing, thats not being a Debbie Downer thats being brutally honest and you could save someone's life with that story. You definitely had a guardian angel over your shoulder that night Rose. God bless you. Wow. Your bf too I couldn't imagine finding my husband blue in a bathtub. Glad you made it ok. A friend of mine stopped breathing before from a drug overdose..and he is still relearning how to do just daily tasks we all take for granted. You got a second chance on life with that one. I really think though that some of us are just SO lost that sometimes it takes that wake up call to bring you back to reality.

    I agree with Rose, Jay. The moment you choose to flush em, you'll feel better for it. If you really really think about it.....whats the point of even having them laying around. You wont need them doing this, I promise. Your mind plays some crazy tricks telling you what you might "need". Not trying to gang up on you also I promise just voicing some concerns esp with reading what Rose said above now. To me...benzos could easily flush down the toilet just a pill to me.... NOW Suboxone on the other hand I know for myself would be much tougher to do. Maybe ask yourself why they're so hard to flush for you. Your a smart guy, you know what you want and there is only one way to get you there. Taking back control, doing what you gotta do even if it means not trusting yourself, treating yourself like a child. Whenever there is something that needs done that I can't bear to do...I make my husband do . Maybe you could have your wife do it for you? If you choose to of course. No pressure. Shove shove push push push. LOL. Kidding. Glad your taper is going well though. Your making your way! I always felt the worst day 3...4 a little better then 5 much better! So this should be the worse of your drop. Which your not lying in bed dying...so your doing it! "One day at a time".

    Do you have kids also? I thought you mentioned kids? Seems like a lot of us are parents.
    Last edited by Anonymous; 04-08-2014, 06:16 PM.

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    • #62
      Thank you to both of you for your replies...i know they are heart felt and you two are correct...of course i can reply with a long antithesis justifying ther remained location in the safe, but I'm afraid it wouldn't sound like anything more then a list of excuses...
      i will say this, we all obviously do have some self control tapering subs... and ther for me will always be an easy way to get a pill or a drink...always has been easy...i think it always will....

      Idammit you too are taking all the good benifits away and making me think of the bad! Lol thanks tho
      anyways didn't make it to the NA meeting, My sorta sponser never showed up so what did i do? Well i didn't drink or use... i been looking into AA alternatives such as smart recovery... i think people need to find what works for them and ther are more then one path that lead to sobriety .. i just really will consider all the help and support that's out there
      Rose your story really is a good warning and i really do not want to find out first hand what long term benzo use is all about..ill take your word on that for sure

      so anyway I'm day four at .66 mg... its doable for sure....slept good again last night...actually fell asleep quickly just minor rls...this morning drag ass to get outta bed had some withdrawal sneezes but dosed upon awakening and any icky feelings are about 75 percent gone

      gonna see how i feel saturday if it good then sunday will drop to .50

      I have some adrenal plus and dlpa i been saving for when i jump...took one of each yesterday...

      haven't touched any clonidine or sleeping pills...haven't felt i needed them...i guess the benzos i have i justify as last resort...
      i have been thru BRUTAL h e r o i n withdrawal and an scared to death of it.... i would drink monky piss excuse mylanguage if i thought that would help...
      anyways i do need to hear benzos are bad i forget sometimes...i honestly do NOT plan on getting anymore... i scared myself with my behavoiur initially enouf on them that i have a certain respect for there evil ways....
      i dunno what else to say....lemme grab a cup of coffee and ill read some other posts and what not...ill reread yours too maybe i need too....which i often to cause I'm so thickheaded and stubborn...neways i hope you both have a great sober blessed day!!! JAY

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      • #63
        Good Morning! Oh I'm sure we all can come up with a million and one excuses...lol. One thing this lifestyle turns you into is a good liar. Not only to others but to yourself also. With the Benzos I can say....I promise promise promise you, you won't need them through this. Your thinking off some much harder withdrawals. Trust me when I say you WON'T have those anxiety attacks. I know what your afraid of. I understand your reasoning for keeping them around I really do. Same reason my husband had one "just incase". You won't feel like that this time if you trust us all and do this right you have my word. I have already skipped a day in my taper and no anxiety. Maybe a little antsy like I needed to be doing something physically. Then I kept busy and felt better. No anxiety attacks I promise. Just do this right and stick with it. My sleeping has been good as well also! I really am kind of a whiner when I really think of how much worse off I could be lol. You'll be fine though you will see. Your making awesome progress! AND guess what! You should be feeling much better tomorrow. Mornings def were the worst of my drops but once I forced myself to get going I felt better. I think Saturday is a good goal for you also, you'll give yourself plenty of time to adjust to that dose, the only time I felt the worst was just dropping too soon. So I'm sure Friday you'll wake up feeling minimal if no symptoms and you'll know when its time to drop. Your doing this, whether happily, sadly or pissed off lol your doing it thats the important part! Stay positive!

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        • #64
          BTW...what is Adrenal plus and dlpa? What do they do? You seem to have the scoop on all the good OTC remedies lol. Were gonna have to nickname you Dr Jay.

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          • #65
            Adrenal plus is said to support adrenal function...apparently your adrenal axis is all messed up when doing opiates...your adrenal gland secretes stress horomones such as cortisol and adrennaline especially when in opiate withdrawal or so i read in some study somewhere...in theory adrenal plus should minimize some withdrawal by supporting adrenal function...

            dpla is a little harder for me to explain....it is an otc supplement said to support the bodys endorphin system it has something to do with the breakdown or reuptake of the bodys natural endorphins...it is used in pain managment and in theory could help lessen ir shorten opiate/suboxone withdrawals....

            i don't know that much about what will make me/us feel better...been some trial and error on my part........for instance a month ago i tried megadosing pure kava root/cocanut milk...and got soooo. sick i doubled my suboxone intake for three days just so i can.function and go to work....

            I'm learning like everyone and ther no magic cure...(some say ibogaine) but i hate with a passion psychedelic. drugs...

            anyways I'm open for suggestion like anyone else.... and have not found a magic formula yet nor plan too....just wanting a softer landing..and i think that is a valid and legitimate want...anyways just my two cents...jay

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            • #66
              Oh..i just realize i missed your first post and ya lying to myself and others and being selfish is a HUGE part of being a drug addict o know first hand...ya can't BS a BSer so to speak...

              ya i think I'm terrified of withdrawal....last summer i jumped subs for 16 DAYS at 2 Mg and i know the benzos would have greatly helped i barely slept for two weeks...on the other hand THIS time i am going to a much lower dose first and trying to get some of my issues under control before i jump so its not overwelming.... i think its just past withdrawal experiences i am expecting similar this time...GOD that would be nice if it wasn't bad this time


              this time I'm ready...this time i prepared..this time i have motivation..and so on...

              I'm not gonna try to BS you.... just damn i gotta learn to trust you guys and the process i guess.... faith is not my best attribute...neways ill work on that...thanks again for all.your encouragment..maybe that's what i needed more then anything..

              its just so NORMAL for me to reach for a pill.or a drink or drug...gotta work on that...well thankd again...Jay

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              • #67
                Originally posted by jayryan View Post
                Oh..i just realize i missed your first post and ya lying to myself and others and being selfish is a HUGE part of being a drug addict o know first hand...ya can't BS a BSer so to speak...

                ya i think I'm terrified of withdrawal....last summer i jumped subs for 16 DAYS at 2 Mg and i know the benzos would have greatly helped i barely slept for two weeks...on the other hand THIS time i am going to a much lower dose first and trying to get some of my issues under control before i jump so its not overwelming.... i think its just past withdrawal experiences i am expecting similar this time...GOD that would be nice if it wasn't bad this time


                this time I'm ready...this time i prepared..this time i have motivation..and so on...

                I'm not gonna try to BS you.... just damn i gotta learn to trust you guys and the process i guess.... faith is not my best attribute...neways ill work on that...thanks again for all.your encouragment..maybe that's what i needed more then anything..

                its just so NORMAL for me to reach for a pill.or a drink or drug...gotta work on that...well thankd again...Jay


                If you don't have faith, what else do we have? Can't base everything off proof. We haven't all seen enough in life to be able to live just off proof of everything. Just sometimes gotta take someones word from their experience. There are still some good people out there, even though your a stranger we would hate to send you into panic attacks etc.

                I also dropped back in Dec from 2 mgs. For some reason that was before I really believed in suboxone withdrawal. Funny what you can tell yourself when you want to believe something. Everyone else in my house had the flu so I just went with that also. I probably really did have some sort of virus on top of withdrawing. It was bad. I ended up taking oxy to sleep (thinking I could just wean off those if I needed..) and then ended right back at 2 mgs suboxone. You live and learn. The adrenal gland and dlpa stuff is really interesting. I'm going to school for nursing so I know how the adrenal gland works...it actually produces hormones and helps regulate kidney function. They're on top of the kidneys. So maybe just maybe it also increases filtration, helping get the drugs out of your system faster. Makes sense to me.

                I have spent so much money on OTC remedies so far. Got 3 more today lol. Immodium-enough said. No need to get into detail there but you know the drill LOL. Just a heads up. Extra strength heartburn meds, and some "odor free" aspercreme for achy joints. I haven't taken anything so far today and yesterday I only took .0612 (half of .125 mg) I'm honestly good! I feel ok. Not great but not bad. Just some stomach probs creepin up and pain in my ankle that I've been whining about since I started the taper lol. But if you made it 16 days off 2 mg...this time weaning even lower and dropping should be (compared to that) a cake walk. Just don't rush it. If your feeling the same in 4-5 days as the day you dropped don't drop again yet. Hold out there a couple more days you'll know. Also I dropped from .25 to .125 50%...stupidly. Don't know how I did that math or didn't realize it at the time. Anyways your doing good! If the benzos locked away make you feel more secure knowing they are there. Or if you absolutely absolutely cannot sleep and have your gf dole out a tiny crumb for sleeping only then do what you gotta do. Just take extra precaution.

                If you make it through not needing them, flush those >>>>ers! lol

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                • #68
                  Hey Jay...just wanted to say I found that site you were talking about! About the chemical processes our bodies go through during withdrawal. Elevated cortisol levels etc making us feel extra stressed out. Also something kinda crazy. It mentions many with addictive personalities have ADHD (Which I do...I was diagnosed years ago). This also says make sure you increase your B vitamins because low levels increase cortisol also. It says the B vitamins deplete faster during withdrawal so you may have to up the dosage. This is a good site though thanks!

                  If anyone else wants to read:
                  opiatewithdrawaltips.com/comfort-issues/

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                  • #69
                    Jay: you're doing really, really good. Listen to your body. Make sure you feel stable before you drop and these lower doses will go much better.

                    In need to talk, look for Ask Ruth's thread. That's ARTIST658 and she's the wisest person I know in the cybersphere. She speaks about the difference between the twelve steps and SMART recovery. There was a poster in "need to talk" Wingedeagle, and she is a great writer and wrote about kicking H: very surreal. I never experienced anything like that myself, but I hear it's REAL HARD w/d. It's a miracle anyone gets past that, so I guess, you're a miracle . LOL. No, really. As the sub leaves your body, and if you make a point to be stable before you drop, your symptoms should be manageable.

                    Hope you're having a great day! Stay positive and focused. You've got this.

                    Rose (no more downer stuff)

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                    • #70
                      @Gettinitoverwith, ya i know all about lopermide..it actually works on the perephial opiate receptors and is great tool for kicking.... that's one of my number one withdrawal meds...my second is doxylamine succinate...its an antihistimine that also causes drowsines...so a sleep aid altho someone here said not to take it with clonidine which is another good comfort med so i hear.... hot baths ir showers help immensly....everything else is preference i suppose...and can be hit or miss...i take a daily multi vitamin b complex milk thistle and a few others....

                      i am planning on doin the same as you...taper to .25 then .125 then half that...i simply can't work with anything smaller...ya it will be 50 percent reduction...but at that point I'm just gonna go for it ya know




                      @rose.... ya ill have to check that thread out sounds great...and yai can write a whole post about AA and why I'mlooking into alternatives but i won't tonight... a hare krishna once said: if your a christian then be a good christian... if your a bhuddist then be a good bhuddist... ill leave it at that for now


                      lastly tomorro i may have a urine drug test that i do not want anything showing up....I'm not taking my morning dose which is making me nervouse cause i haven't left my house in almost a year withougt taking anything...will be sorta a test run for when i start skipping days...everything will be ok.

                      today was a hard day...no energy..no 'zooted' feeling subs used to give me...aches and pains seemed enhanced... i can still tell this low dose holding the withdrawals at bay..but not my emotions if that makes sense....ill have to ponder that more....


                      well thanks for listening to me yap....hope yall are doing well......ill talk to ya tomorro ...learning to have faith ...Jay

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                      • #71
                        Oh snap it slilpped my mind we were talking about the stress ones body goes under during withdrawal...yasome have sworn by that adrenal plus..i dunno ill find out when i jump...i also have some magnolia bark extract...(not the little bottle with alchohol...but a real deal 100 grams or so of it supposed to also help the body with inflimation is antioxidant and also perhaps helps the body in times of stress....you can find almost any herb or supplement online and i have a few places i can order and have it shipped within days... valerian root i haven't tried yet....anyways sorry...i bore my girlfriend to death with this stuff but I'm highly interested in holistic alternative med....it all started when i quit drinking alchohol and was buying herbal teas...then i started making my own herbal teas....my favorite is the easiest. simple green tea...fresh lemon and ginger great on the kidneys liver and stomach...has antioxidant properties l theanine...and still a bit of caffeinel...love it lol...can't wait to wake up and get a cup of it...well i gotta hop in the shower...peace jay

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                        • #72
                          Sorry...I'm posting so much...just thinking about stuff..this for sure is my online journal.... you had mentioned perhaps adhd? I don't think i have that but am looking into the idea that addiction can perhaps be a manifistation of another problem...as you have said perhaps adhd? Withought writing a book here illa just focus on one apect of my addition ... I've been toying around with the idea i may be hypoglocemic....i did an online survey and have like every single damn symptom......they say many with mood disorders, criminal.records and addictions.indeed are hypoglycemic...soo after reading that.. been kinda half assed following a diet that supposed to help that while avoiding sugars including alchohol...haven't been avoiding caffeine and nicotine but i can't very well.quit everything at once now can i lol....anyways you said your a nursing student that's good you have a curiosity about you as nurses have more time with the patient...i have physilogical anisicoria that was acting up real bad and freeking me the hell.out a few years ago it was a nurse that figured out what gave me crazy eyes even after the doctors did cat scans and all kinds of eye tests and such the nurse was the one who nailed the problem and fugured out wtf ya know...anyway...made a cup of ginger tea gonna drink.it and attempt sleep.....


                          i really want off suboxone...getting closer!! Sweet! Jay
                          Last edited by Anonymous; 04-09-2014, 10:42 PM.

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                          • #73
                            Hey Jay!

                            Omg you sound like my brothers. LOL. They get so into something and will research everything about it. My nephew came over to stay the night a week ago..he's 6 (my brothers son) and spent the night explaining to me why Mcdonalds food is bad and not to chew gum because of Aspertine (spell check). So just to show you HOW much my brother talks about that lol his 6 year old is into it now. Then my baby brother he called me a week ago to tell me just how bad Moth balls are for your health 30 min conversation that took haha....Its a good thing though comes in handy! My oldest brother is also into that "survivalist" mode, but I know where I'm running if anything ever happens lol..his house. You'd love nursing school, or any kind of medical degree. Thats all I do is read all about the human body and how different chemicals affect things, then take exams on it. Interesting stuff...good field to get into also the money is nice. Maybe this is your destiny..you never know? I'm not surprised a nurse diagnosed you...a lot of people brush them off and wait to hear from the Dr. But you should see the schooling that goes into my degree. Psychology, Communications, Pharmacology, and a ton of learning the human body and symptoms. You can become a Nurse Practioner by simply getting a masters degree in Nursing. You'd like it though, you sound like the type that would be into that field.

                            I don't know what triggers addiction, I think a lot of it is problems coping, not being taught a healthier way to cope with life problems. Putting up a wall and not talking out problems...that sort of thing. I don't know what it is but I do know there is no cure. I definitely believe that. Just a lot of coping and learning boundaries and choosing to protect ourselves from bad influences. I really believe there comes the point where we have to CHOOSE ourselves and be "selfish" in the sense that were willing to hurt feelings of the people who really don't have your best interest at heart. I've been pretty good about that lately and its helped. I don't need SO many friends and we can't please everyone. The people who really really love you and care for you want to see you clean and happy, no one else matters. We will get there though. You've seem to have come a long way. You have a LOT to be proud of with that. Just look at it this way, if life was easy on you...and you didn't make those mistakes you wouldn't be 1/2 as strong as you are today. Proud of you! We got this!!! Glad you stuck around!

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                            • #74
                              Hey everyone...i only have few minutes...just got out of counseling got myself out. taking a drug test by chatting up the counseler and running out of time...i know I'm bad...the good news she on vacation next week so got two weeks till next bupe test....i should be under .5 mg

                              by then ain't no way that sh
                              owing up

                              skipping my morning dose was HARD but i did it....finally took my .67 a half hour ago......took some clonidine and a handful of supplements...i couldn't take lopermide cause that can trigger a false positive for opiates which sucked cause was getting moderate stomach cramps... i made it....almost said screw it and jump now. but no patience...stick to the plan ...everything will be ok...

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                              • #75
                                @Gettin it over with
                                .i gotta go to my oldest sons school for a musical...ill respond to your post when i get done and check out your thread peace jay

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