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  • new here need advice

    Hey my name is jay and i am at the tail end of a LONG sub taper (4TH year into it... anyways i am (Somewhat stable at .8mg ( That's 800 micrograms i beleive)

    I guess my question is/problem is... that i feel pretty fatiigued and such when i wake up in the morning and anxiety and insomnia sometimes at night... its not unberable just uncomfortable..... i have tried herbal teas kava (don't like at all) um been lookin into different amino acids etc... been drinking protien shakes trying to excersize etc... is ther something I'm missing... i want to make another drop buy am concerned these sypmtoms. will get worse.... i have been thru >>>>>> withdrawal and couldn't hack it that's why i got on subs... but i want off.... should i go down by 20 percent or maybe 50 PERcent or what? I can deal with some flulike symptoms..just worried about anxiety and fatigue... i can't take time off work... i guess i just am happy i made it this far but really concerned this last little bit.... is ther anything I'm not thinkinh of or forgetting....should i get some clonidine or benzos?.. thoughts... ill look thru the other threads to see what some of the other people in a similar sittuation are doing... just wanted to put my situation out ther as sometimes ther is something i don't see and someone else can see more clearly..tha.ks jay

  • #2
    Hey Jay,

    Good to see you started a new thread here. The other board you posted on is pretty slow.

    First, stay the heck away from any benzos. I'm sure you know this, but they are highly addictive in a short period of time. You don't wanna introduce another addictive substance into your body. For anxiety, try Theanine. I have Serene Theanine which I purchased at a vitamin store. Takes the edge off.

    I also have clonidine which I only take when necessary. It helps with hot/cold chills. Exercise, staying hydrated and eating well is your best bet.

    You're at such a low dose that you could start skipping days now. Most people here who have tapered off subs go down to about .25 mg or .125 mg, then skip days. There's a taper plan most of us follow by Robert_325. At the end of a taper it goes like this: you skip one day, then dose. Skip 2 days, then dose. Skip 3 days, then dose. After skipping 4 full days, the half-life has caught up with itself and you're done.

    It's totally up to you if you want to attempt to go lower than .8 mg. I can imagine it will be difficult considering how tiny a dose that is. Let us know what you think and we'll be here to help.



    • #3
      Ya i do have some theanine.. it works once i fall asleep..i guess i was thinking benzo like a short acting one to actually get me to sleep.. i know i have drug seeking behaviour and they are addictive... i dunno

      let me give just a little history..I'm on my cell phone so its a little time consuming way
      Last summer i was sick and was at 2mg daily in my taper decided to jump...made it sixteen days... but the fatigue and insomnia were ridiculous so i concluded i jumped to high and went back on them...jumped around a little till the begining of this year decided to give it another go... so went from 2 MG DOwn to point .8 Which was a pretty steady linear taper... been at this dose for a few weeks and i swear i cannot hardly get out of bed and until I gather up all my energy (wich is basically zero) and motivation to go take the sub... it takes about two hours after that for me to feel ok..which lasts about 8 hrs then the anxiety hits and i become lethargic and by the time i go to bed restless legs etc... sometimes sleep is only a few hours... is this just the way it is at such a low dose ?

      To wrap up my post i guess i am if they any possible thing i can do to feel better cause i do want to taper even lower befoee i .quit ... or maybe I'm just prolonging it?

      I dunno i read thru some other posts and i suppose everyone is different.. was wondering about the clonidine.. do most people start that ater the jump or during the last bit of the tapej.. i juguess i want a softer landing


      • #4

        my cell phone wouldn't let me edit above... i wanted to ask also do u think if i stay at this dose a few more weeks will it get better? Or are these just symptoms i have to deal wit on this end of taper? And when i jump..

        lemme also add i think i have a really high metaabolism and maybe my body just metabolizes this stuff quicker like 20 hours as oppised to 36 which is the mean elimination half life... maybe that's what it is.. would splitting the dose in two be recomended if this is the case?


        • #5
          I would definitely taper lower than .8 before you jump completely. . If you jumped from 2mg. and lowered to .8mg. that was a pretty steep jump. It's important that you are stable before you go down and you should be stable after two weeks. Some things you need to do:

          Exercise. Exercise. Exercise.
          L-tyronsine with B-6 (need that for the tyrosine to metabolize) I use Triple Boost by Irwin Naturals
          Valarian root for anxiety (exercise and plenty of water will help)
          As Kat said, clonidine is helpful. Benzo's can lead to another addiction and w/d from those are no fun and going off the benzo can really increase your anxiety.

          Your next step down from .8mg. should be .6mg. keep your drops at .25% every 5 days or so. You've gotten really good info from Kat! Good luck with your taper, you will get there!




          • #6
            Ok, I feel like the biggest idiot! Don't ask me why, but I thought you meant .08 mg! I'm so sorry. Of course you definitely want to taper down more. I kept thinking "how the heck do you cut such a small dose?" lol...

            I feel so dumb right now. Yes, once you're stable at .8 mg, you drop by 25% to .6 mg. Only drop your doses when stable and no more than 25% at a time.

            Try Hylands Restful Legs for the RLS.


            • #7
              As a person who is prescribed benzos don't start them.
              You really do not want to begin taking them if you currently do not now. Listen to them they know what they are telling you. Every one may be different but will not guide you in wrong direction. The anxiety will pass.
              Clonidine if necessary. Non addictive and I didn't need them all that often.
              But if you're not currently taking benzos don't start please.
              that addiction is much harder to oovercome physically & mentally. Don't put to much on your plate at once.


              • #8
                Thank you both for your replies... and sorry my anXiety was hitting a bit erlier...
                i went ahead and tried some more l-Theanine (i usually take it before bed) but took it erlier and did take the edge off a little perhaps...

                ya there is a lot of good advice here i been reading other threads too...
                as far as next i think i will follow your advice... my last sub i cut into .8 Mg peices so ten cuts....
                the next one ill cut into twelve cuts ( i think that's .6?)... i dunno ther gettin small...
                also i decided i am gonna get clonidine ...still do i use that during the taper or after my jump? or both? ...

                and about. the benzos i appriciate the advice and i decided ill put it on the back burner at least for now... but i still am thinking the jury still out for me wether they can be benificial used responsably short term just during the kicking process...

                i have had experience with benzos in the past and they were benificial as long as i didn't abuse them... i do admit to abusing them in the past so i am aware of the horrible rebound anxiety brain zaps etc..

                neways its getting late I'm gonna take a hot shower and try to get some sleep tonight...

                i do appriciate all the sound advice and at least i have a plan for this week was it Kat that mentioned you take clonidine during your taper? how should i take it ill have the .1Mg i think? Andd ill look into valerien and watnot tomorro..thanks again! Jay


                • #9
                  Its ok you shouldn't feel sillyy about that simple mistake in a decimaal point... i feel silly i gotta use my phone to type and its always full of typos plus its harder to comunicate ya know cut and paste make more direct replies..I'm just happy yall aren't busting on me for my spelling like they do on youtube haha!! neway thanks again jay


                  • #10

                    I'm glad you've got a plan for your taper. Yes, I sometimes take clonidine when I'm dealing with hot/cold chills. My doc prescribed .25 mg tablets. Clonidine makes me very tired so I only take half a pill at a time. I'm saving a few for the end of my taper just in case.

                    I cracked up when you made the comment about people busting you about your spelling on YouTube. Lol..

                    Hope you're able to get some good sleep.


                    • #11
                      So you take half of a .25 Clonidine? So my .1I'm getting should be about that dose.
                      Does it warm u up when your cold..

                      I'm feeezing lately everyone in my house is warm/hot and here i am in front of the space heater...

                      got a bad case of sneezes ( i sneeze a lot withdrawing ) will clonidine help with that?

                      I still don't understand what all it does? u said it makes u sleepyy does that mean maybe it helps you sleep at night?
                      Does it take away goosebumbs or itchy crawly feeling?

                      Sorry for all the questions i google this stuff but the info is all over the place....

                      oh i got lopermide for stomach problems...saving that for when i jump...neways... i dunno if i caught where your at in sub maint/taper withdrawal? ThT info woulf help me too if ya don't mind..

                      thanks again..jay...


                      • #12
                        Questions about paws:

                        So were suppossed to not open new threads correct? So I'm double posting here lol sry just have more questionsu

                        ne ways... I'm pretty confident i am prepared to finish tapering and junp in a few weeks or months (SLOw and low, that's the tempo) BBs reference sorry lol..

                        ne ways i i understand a somewhat quicker Taper is recomended but I'm a LONG time user ..this stuff is probably settled in my bones taking my time
                        which brings me to my question

                        i am somewhat concerned about PAWS.. i have ZERO plan on how ill deal with any longer term symptoms like anxiety insonnia and fatigue

                        I go to AA and Outpatient... and of cours excersive and diet..
                        but being the drug addict i am i want to feel good NOW haha..

                        so what acceptable comfort meds and supplements for the paws syptoms i mentioned...

                        i think the insomnia and anxiety we allready covered some but wat about that DAG GONE relentless fatigue and maleise?

                        I have adrenal plus and dlpa and tyrosine on the way... but that's about it.. oh already got B12ETC

                        IS THER ANYTHINg.a little better?

                        I love my caffene but been trying to cut back cause of anxiety...
                        and any alchohol is pretty much out of the question too

                        i dunno ideas? What has worked for others?


                        • #13
                          Clonidine will help with hot/cold chills and sweats, creepy crawly feeling and sleep. The reason I mentioned that it makes me very tired is because I didn't know that until I took my first dose a few months ago. I took a .25 tablet and could barely keep my eyes open. But not everyone has that reaction from it. I don't think it helps with sneezing.

                          Don't worry too much about paws. Despite what people think, it's actually uncommon. You can deal with that if and when that happens...and it probably won't.

                          Malaise and fatigue just have to be dealt with by taking supplements, good diet, exercise, etc.

                          Love the Beastie Boys reference by the



                          • #14
                            Oh -- I forgot to answer your question about my dose. I'm currently at 1 mg.


                            • #15
                              Keep it up

                              I am at the end of a taper as well...I tried making it through today with nothing but ended up taking a .125 peice of the strip. I feel much better. To answer your question in my experience your body will adjust to the takes a bit. For me I figured if I'm gonna feel like >>>>...might as well make it worth it. So I dropped from 1 mg to .25 skipping days here and to .125 when I absolutely can't make it through the day. I'm hoping if I keep up skipping days I will be able to quit completely. To make it easier on yourself...I heard to taper .25% of your dose every 4-5 days until you feel "stable"...stable meaning minor withdrawal symptoms subside. What your experiencing now basically. Hot/cold flashes...achy...etc. If you feel you can manage at 8 mg...try cutting down to 4 and mustering through. Its not as bad as withdrawals...its achiness. Kind of after a rough workout. Nothing I'm sure you can't manage. Just treat the symptoms. If you don't feel ready to rush don't. What helps encourage me when I'm feeling >>>>>> is some of the people on you tube going through withdrawals. You will see its no where as bad as your imagining! Now I wouldn't recommend dropping off at 8 mg..but don't be afraid to wean down. Your body will adjust pretty quickly. A little achiness and fatigue a day or two and you'll feel better. Just keep going down never up is the goal. I've managed to go down within 2 weeks once I skip a day or two I'm gonna just feel it out..and keep lowering my dose until theres nothing left! You'll get there don't worry. You never know until you try you might be one of the luckier ones who are working and fine during withdrawals. I've felt cold turkey from 2 mgs....and I just felt like I had a flu. Achy joints and tired...thats about it. Good luck! Remember "This too shall pass"...