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Quitting methadone with sub taper

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  • #16
    Hey MrJones - I'm with Iloerose - give us an update about your current progress. If I read your first post correctly this should be your 3rd day off the methadone. You should be getting fairly close to the 26 score needed to induct. I'm very curious how long it takes you to get there? As I mentioned, it took me around 90 hours or just short of 4 full days before I reached the score. I was so afraid of the pw's (for a 3rd time) that I went a little past the 26 score and got to a 28 or so I think it was. I know it was more than 26 to be extra safe. We all want to see you do this!

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    • #17
      I wonder why some people get P/W so easily, while others don't? I mean, the same thing goes with the half-life of methadone/subs, where people claim they don't get w/d til the 3rd day, etc all which has never happened to me. I'd take a sub or done in the morning, and by the next morning at the latest, I'd be in withdrawal.

      I honestly think people worry too much and claim things based on their own bodies, but everyone is different. It sure didn't take me 3 days off methadone to be able to take suboxone. Perhaps it's a metabolism/body type thing.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by originalchris View Post
        I wonder why some people get P/W so easily, while others don't? I mean, the same thing goes with the half-life of methadone/subs, where people claim they don't get w/d til the 3rd day, etc all which has never happened to me. I'd take a sub or done in the morning, and by the next morning at the latest, I'd be in withdrawal.

        I honestly think people worry too much and claim things based on their own bodies, but everyone is different. It sure didn't take me 3 days off methadone to be able to take suboxone. Perhaps it's a metabolism/body type thing.
        I'd take a guess that you're one-in-a-million, Chris and consider yourself very, very blessed, and/or lucky. I guess it's sorta like when 2 people stop the exact same high dose of oxy for example by going cold turkey. One person may have the easiest of times where the other may have much worse symptoms. It may take one 4-5 days to get over it and the other may have symptoms that linger for a week or longer.

        But I can assure you the odds where methadone to suboxone is concerned is on the side of the LONGER you wait to induct the better your chances of NOT having those dreaded pw's. If you've ever experienced precipitated withdrawals you would NEVER, EVER want to go through it again. I've experienced it TWICE and will always SUGGEST that those wishing to make the transistion from methadone to suboxone use the cows score as their indicator, and it takes as long as it takes. It took me around 90 hours, but it's very possible to take less time with someone else because we ARE all different in the way we metabolize different substances, etc.

        But to say you can take methadone one day and suboxone the next is purely a chance not worth taking in my opinion, and not something I would EVER advise. (you mentioned this in your above post) One that I would hope no one would be tempted to take unless their true cows score was at a 26 or higher, which is very unlikely based on my own experience, and the experience of many others.

        You definitely beat the odds.
        Last edited by Anonymous; 08-19-2014, 01:04 PM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Iwantoff2013 View Post
          Hi there. Welcome to the forum.

          I can't add much at this point to what's already been said. Getting to an honest 26 on the COWS is absolutely imperative, especially with methadone. I went through precipitated withdrawal many years ago. It was beyond awful.

          Robert's induction/taper plan works great if followed correctly. You shouldn't have any trouble stabilizing and tapering, especially since you've never been on Sub before. My saga (lol) is quite different: I made the huge mistake of allowing my Sub doc to keep me on Sub "maintenance" for many years...all the while still abusing full agonist opiates and then going back to Sub when the pills would run out. My taper has been very lengthy on account of my long-term Sub use. But I'm thrilled to say that I'm at the very end now -- today was my 2nd day of a 3-day skip. My last Sub dose will be Wednesday, then it's jump time! I'm nervous, but also very excited to be done with Sub.

          A very important aspect of recovery is having a plan in place to stay clean. Have you considered addiction counseling, AA/NA, etc?

          How are you feeling now? What's your score at this point?
          We're here to help you through.

          Kat
          Wow Kat I had know Idea! im so Happy for you!! Great Job!!!
          Melinda

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          • #20
            Hey everyone. Sorry I had things take way longer today than I expected. I was finally able to dose around 7am. I tried 0.5 mg, but after an hour or so was still having stomach cramps and other symptoms, so I dropped the other half. After that I was good. I only slept about an hour last night, so I'm assuming the headache and neck ache I can't shake can be mostly attributed to that. I can tell that there is a lingering effect in my stomach and with being anxious though. I remember seeing somewhere that caffeine was bad for a detox; if so I'm in trouble cus I live on soda and 5 hr energy shots. Maybe time to get healthy in that respect as well. I felt pretty messed up today, at least in the head; my body still didn't feel "right." I thought this was strange since I was still sick until I dropped the second 0.5 mg. I guess the main thing is that I took the first step in a series that will eventually bring me to where I want to be.

            I had a second here and there today, so I was able to read your posts, just couldn't respond. But I wanted all of you to know how much I appreciate your encouragement.

            Congrats Rfootprints on day 4!! That's fantastic. Monuments are built one stone at a time. How are you doing with it? Hopesoon mentioned meds to help; are you doing that?

            Thany you everyone for all of your advice.

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            • #21
              Congrats Kat!!! I was looking at that last night. There's na meeting here every night of the week, and I believe this is something I'm going to do. Great suggestion; thanks. Yeah, I figure since everyone is endorsing the plan so much, I should follow it to the letter as Randy and Iloerose suggest. Best of luck to you.

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              • #22
                Originally posted by originalchris View Post
                I wonder why some people get P/W so easily, while others don't? I mean, the same thing goes with the half-life of methadone/subs, where people claim they don't get w/d til the 3rd day, etc all which has never happened to me. I'd take a sub or done in the morning, and by the next morning at the latest, I'd be in withdrawal.

                I honestly think people worry too much and claim things based on their own bodies, but everyone is different. It sure didn't take me 3 days off methadone to be able to take suboxone. Perhaps it's a metabolism/body type thing.
                I've seen this in some people. Usually not a long term user though, but it happens. Personally, it was a risk I could live without. I heard too many horror stories to try it, plus I really want to do this exactly as it says. It seems to work for a lot of people, and if I'm gonna put it all on the line I might as well do it by the books. I see what you're saying though, just not worth the risk for me.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Randy35 View Post
                  Hey MrJones - I'm with Iloerose - give us an update about your current progress. If I read your first post correctly this should be your 3rd day off the methadone. You should be getting fairly close to the 26 score needed to induct. I'm very curious how long it takes you to get there? As I mentioned, it took me around 90 hours or just short of 4 full days before I reached the score. I was so afraid of the pw's (for a 3rd time) that I went a little past the 26 score and got to a 28 or so I think it was. I know it was more than 26 to be extra safe. We all want to see you do this!
                  Right at 72 hrs for me, thankfully. I was conservative as well. I could have probably hit 26 at around 3 am, but held off as long as I could. Man I had that assessment memorized last night, rooting for my next symptom so I could tally up the scores again. I think all of that strengthened my resolve to end this forever.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by MrJones View Post
                    I was finally able to dose around 7am. I tried 0.5 mg, but after an hour or so was still having stomach cramps and other symptoms, so I dropped the other half. After that I was good.
                    Oh WOW! You were able to get stable taking only 1mg total? That is AWESOME Mr Jones!!! I'm both amazed and surprised - in a good way of course. Really thought it may have taken a bit more than that, but it's definitely a huge plus that it didn't! The less you have to take at induction the less you have to taper off later when the time comes.

                    I'm so happy you were able to do this. I would only say at this point to keep in mind it may be possible for you to require a bit more sub later as according to Robert's plan the induction can take up to 4 days to get completely stable. The dose may need to be adjusted, but of course it doesn't have to be. It's very possible the 1mg is the right dose for YOU and that is all it will take. I honestly hope that's the case.

                    You did one fine job with this induction. Very impressive and please know you have helped so many others that come here reading and see that you did it and know they can too! Well done!

                    Please keep updating your progress. If you have any problems or questions let us know. We're still here to help and will be watching for your posts. Isn't it amazing how you can be feeling nasty with symptoms, but take a little sub and all is well and good.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Randy35 View Post
                      Oh WOW! You were able to get stable taking only 1mg total? That is AWESOME Mr Jones!!! I'm both amazed and surprised - in a good way of course. Really thought it may have taken a bit more than that, but it's definitely a huge plus that it didn't! The less you have to take at induction the less you have to taper off later when the time comes.

                      I'm so happy you were able to do this. I would only say at this point to keep in mind it may be possible for you to require a bit more sub later as according to Robert's plan the induction can take up to 4 days to get completely stable. The dose may need to be adjusted, but of course it doesn't have to be. It's very possible the 1mg is the right dose for YOU and that is all it will take. I honestly hope that's the case.

                      You did one fine job with this induction. Very impressive and please know you have helped so many others that come here reading and see that you did it and know they can too! Well done!

                      Please keep updating your progress. If you have any problems or questions let us know. We're still here to help and will be watching for your posts. Isn't it amazing how you can be feeling nasty with symptoms, but take a little sub and all is well and good.
                      I know! Thank you so much. I hope I can stay there too. I'm so glad I've got people like all of you to get feedback from. Like you said, I may or may not need adjustment still, but either way your collective experiences will be invaluable in determining how to proceed each step of the way. Thank you.

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                      • #26
                        I agree with Randy- 1mg, awesome!!!
                        I hope you are feeling well
                        It is a little scary once you induct and you aren't really sure what you are supposed to be feeling... I knew it was working for me when I just felt even keel, so to speak.
                        Not high. Not luggish.

                        I had a very hard time and ended up taking a .125 piece. Tomorrow I will start my day one over again.
                        The nice part was- even though I have felt >>>>>> the last few days, I hadn't even thought of taking a sliver until today when it was feeling unbearable.
                        All of my drops have been easy peasy before this. I'm hoping that tomorrow will be back to the same ole easy stuff ...
                        I'm ready to plow thru either way.


                        I'm really proud of you for sticking it out and I'm looking forward to following your taper
                        I will write more tomorrow... Lack of sleep (same for you.. Get some rest!!!) and super busy day at work, I am ready for some Zzzzz's

                        Take care,
                        Rose

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                        • #27
                          Hey Mr. Jones - How are you feeling today? Hop on and give us an update when you get a chance. Is the 1mg holding you still? Another question(s) if you don't mind - When do you plan on taking your dose - morning, mid day, or evening? And do you plan on taking one single dose or perhaps splitting it up and maybe take it in 2 separate doses as many seem to do? Hope you're doing well today!

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Rfootprints View Post
                            I agree with Randy- 1mg, awesome!!!
                            I hope you are feeling well
                            It is a little scary once you induct and you aren't really sure what you are supposed to be feeling... I knew it was working for me when I just felt even keel, so to speak.
                            Not high. Not luggish.

                            I had a very hard time and ended up taking a .125 piece. Tomorrow I will start my day one over again.
                            The nice part was- even though I have felt >>>>>> the last few days, I hadn't even thought of taking a sliver until today when it was feeling unbearable.
                            All of my drops have been easy peasy before this. I'm hoping that tomorrow will be back to the same ole easy stuff ...
                            I'm ready to plow thru either way.


                            I'm really proud of you for sticking it out and I'm looking forward to following your taper
                            I will write more tomorrow... Lack of sleep (same for you.. Get some rest!!!) and super busy day at work, I am ready for some Zzzzz's

                            Take care,
                            Rose
                            Thank you so much. Great job sticking with it. I truly hope you handle this next cycle well. I actually slept like a baby last night. Of course I stayed up late and had to get up early, but I was out as soon as I laid down. You're doing a fantastic job; stay the course.
                            Last edited by Anonymous; 08-20-2014, 05:04 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Randy35 View Post
                              Hey Mr. Jones - How are you feeling today? Hop on and give us an update when you get a chance. Is the 1mg holding you still? Another question(s) if you don't mind - When do you plan on taking your dose - morning, mid day, or evening? And do you plan on taking one single dose or perhaps splitting it up and maybe take it in 2 separate doses as many seem to do? Hope you're doing well today!
                              Feeling great today. I dosed today in the morning so I'll probably try to stick with that, but might go with splitting it like you suggested. I actually planned on doing that today, but I did the first 0.5 around 6am, and I wanted to wait a while to see how I felt, thinking it may be possible that I'd be ok at that, but something unexpected came up, and rather than take the other half with me I went ahead and took it at around 7:30. I dunno how the day would have turned out otherwise, but I felt like I may have actually taken more than I absolutely had to have. Today there were no aches or anything, felt energetic, but also felt a little foggy. I know my eyes were really messed up today(reddish, pin pupils) and you know how your voice gets a little raspy when you are really messed up? I had that too. In all, The closest analogy I can make is that I felt like I do when I'd take a double dose of methadone. I dunno, maybe I should have only taken the first half. What do you think? Thank you again for everything.

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                              • #30
                                I wasn't necessarily suggesting you split your dose, I was only asking if you were considering doing that. In my opinion I actually think it's probably best if you just take one dose per day. Take it in the morning and then forget about it until the following day. Of course it's totally up to you. The half life will carry you through until the next day.

                                As far as being a bit "foggy" is concerned, it sure sounds like you have taken too much sub. I know I had reddish and burning eyes when I was taking my higher doses too. I know exactly what you're describing.

                                I think you may be able to get by with a little less sub with the symptoms you're describing. But I think in this case seeing as you just inducted yesterday, and are basically doing very well, I would just leave it alone for now and not mess with things too much. I bet as soon as you begin tapering and get the dose down those eye issues and raspy voice will clear right up. It's amazing how a tiny bit of sub goes a long way. It's a very strong drug.

                                You're doing great! Have you given any thought about when you may want to start your taper? If you give it a few days on the 1mg, then begin reducing and get off in a timely manner, your symptoms should be very minimal I would think. Thanks for the update.

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